Smart Move Clark: Firing Dorsey Makes Sense Now

I had begun to look into Dorsey, before the Dallas game, but that horrific loss brought my thoughts into clear focus. When Clark Hunt fired John Dorsey, there were a number of things that were said. Perhaps the most important statement, was when Hunt said he was concerned about Chiefs ability to sustain their success long term. John Dorsey took this Chiefs team from a bottom feeder to a contender, much faster than any team normally is able to do that. For fans, this was a lot of fun, but along the way, the mistakes started to pile up and this 2017 Chiefs team is paying the price for those errors.

Dorsey came into a team with some talent, a lot of holes and a lot of cap space. He immediately began to eliminate cap space and add players. Some of those guys helped Chiefs get to the next level. Guys like Sean Smith and Alex Smith were big additions. He also made some big boo boos. He dropped a bunch of money on washed up DB Dunta Robinson and spent a ton of money at WR by extending Bowe and signing Avery. Money that pretty much proved to be a waste. Immediately eating up all that cap space put Chiefs at a disadvantage for the rest of Dorsey’s tenure. Chiefs were never consistent players in free agency. They got a guy here or there, but they had to pass on a number of veteran safeties and CBs that they could really use right now.

Perhaps the bigger problem with Dorsey’s approach, was that he did too much to win right away. The draft is how great teams are built. Chiefs used up a lot of resources to lower their draft position. Chiefs picked 23rd and selected Dee Ford. Had they won the 6-7 games that a bad team with a new head coach usually does, Chiefs would have been in a position to pick players like Ryan Shazier, Odell Beckham, Kyle Fuller or Zach Martin. Imagine what this year’s team would look like with any of those guys instead of Ford (ignore the fact that Beckham is injured).

Dorsey’s win now approach led to a bunch of band-aid fixes, rather than permanent solutions. Chiefs needed depth behind Hali and Houston, which had cost them in 2013, so they reached on Dee Ford, who has taken three years to be an average OLB. Chiefs lacked solid CBs, so they went from one rookie CB to the next, hoping that they would have another one ready, by the time teams saw all their weaknesses on tape. Marcus Cooper, Jamell Flemming and Ron Parker were never going to be long term solutions at CB, but Chiefs didn’t have the cap space to sign someone who would be. Perhaps all this would have worked out if Dorsey’s draft picks had panned out well. Unfortunately, contrary to his reputation, many of Dorsey’s picks didn’t pan out long term.

Chiefs have spent eight picks on DBs in the draft. Two of those guys have turned into viable starters. At ILB, Chiefs have needed significant help for a while. Dorsey drafted four ILBs, while with the Chiefs. Three of them were cut (though Wilson was re-signed) and Ukeme Eligwe is a rookie who has yet to see the field, on defense. The first thing Brett Veach did, when he took over for Dorsey, was make two moves for ILBs. Both have been on the field this year for the Chiefs over Ramik Wilson. In his first couple months, Veach added more ILB talent than Dorsey did over the course of five offseasons.

The legend of Dorsey’s drafting ability, was largely built on a stellar 2015 draft. A draft, which yielded starters Marcus Peters, Mitch Morse, Chris Conely and Steven Nelson, as well as quality depth DE Rakeem Nunez Rochez. Other years were a different story. In 2016 Chiefs snagged major steals with Hill and Jones, Ehinger was ok, but Hogan and 3rd round pick Kievarre Russel were immediate flops. Chiefs secured two solid OGs in the 6th round in 2014, but important picks like Ford and Gaines have failed to make significant contributions to the team long term. In 2013, while picking first overall, Dorsey found Fisher and Kelce. He whiffed on every pick after that. Drafting is hard, I’m not suggesting that Dorsey was terrible at drafting. I would say Dorsey was a top 10 GM, at drafting, but he was closer to 10th than first. It’s not crazy to think that Veach could be an upgrade.

When you see the problems Chiefs are dealing with in 2017, it’s not hard to see why Hunt was worried about Chiefs success, long-term. An aging defense, a secondary that can’t cover anyone, yet still holding the 7th least cap space in the NFL. The offense has been the lone bright spot this season, though they were terrible last week. Hopefully, Chiefs can make a massive improvement after the bye week. For the rest of the year, Chiefs will have to lean on the offense. Veach will have his work cut out for him to improve one of the league’s worst defenses, and few resources at his disposal to do so.

Bonus Thought: When times are bad, it’s easy to lash out at other people. Resist the temptation to do so. We might disagree about why the Chiefs suck right now, but we all agree that they do, and we want it to stop. Stay civil and stay hungry for that championship. Anything is possible, any given Sunday, Go Chiefs!

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Ransom Hawthorne

Ransom Hawthorne

Ransom Hawthorne is an electrician living in central KS. He's married and has two young boys. Born in KS, and raised in Tucson, Ransom spent his middle school years in southern Mexico.
Ransom Hawthorne

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  • Homer Dave

    Not saying we deserve this but we were there during the 2-14 season lmaoooooo we’ve survived Cassel and Thigpen.— Chiefs 6-😐 (@tattedykdub) November 6, 2017

  • Homer Dave

    I’m still scratching my head over this defense thingy. Yeah, the entire defense is bad right now but exactly where it starts getting bad is eluding me. Is it the d-line? They look to filling gaps but they are also letting runners through for around 4-5 yards a carry on average. The ILBS? They haven’t looked good for a while now (read: multiple seasons) and we watch them charge into the incorrect gap every game it seems. The Secondary? DD and RP lead the team in tackles and that seems incorrect to me so I think there is a system failure there. The CBs? Wow, so much to talk about there but I still think Mitchell is getting a bad deal and Peters has Neon Deon syndrome. ILBs? Ford sucks, Hali is old, Zombo is good depth but not a starter, Houston is being misplaced and some will hate me for this but I’ve seen him pull up while in pursuit- it’s true.

    • tm1946

      There is so much wrong with the defense…. hard to figure out how we won the games we won. Injury, lack of talent, lack of effort, bad coaching, big contracts – little return.

      Got no answers but lots of questions. Just read this morning….. Kpass is not playing much. He played last game because we had no one else to stand in the spot….. but the interesting part is….. KC media guy is saying Kpass does not fit the system. There is a chance he is a bust for the Sutton style of play…. I about had a heart attack over that…. just me.

      • drwillez37

        What is the Sutton way anyhow??standing around till we get backed into the redzone??

        • tm1946

          pretty much.

          • drwillez37

            I read what u wrote earlier about what Petro said and I’m in board with that assumption 110%. Sutton is a dinosaur and his entire defensive coaching staff needs a shake up. There’s plenty of time left in the season to salvage the squad and letting Sutton go might be a good choice. If not this year he’s gotta be gone at the start of next year’s offseason

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      I think Ragland and P-Lewis might turn out to be good pick ups. I am questioning the entire D coaching staff. Especially D-line, but I’m guessing that one won’t change.

    • drwillez37

      I’m at a complete lose for words myself. But as always it’s starts with the coaches and I’ll argue that point from now till the cows come home. Sutton has his hands full personally I want a YOUNG agressive coach to step in and fire up this boring defensive team

    • drwillez37

      I’m still waiting to see this Logan guy do something, anything. the way his old fans and teammates talked about him, you’d think a young Wilfork was coming to town

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    I actually just finished watching the game. I really didn’t think we played that bad. IMO, mostly mental errors. I counted 7 dead ball penalties on O. Schwartz had a horrible game. Zombo misread several plays. Smiths INT, he just threw the ball late. But for the most part, most of the players had a decent game.

    • drwillez37

      The penalties are killing us you could definitely make an argument putting 75% of the blame on the teams disipline on these loses. Except for the pittsburgh game. And it’s sad to this that 1 lose killed all the confidence AS11 had going for himself. Since then he has curled back it the shell of scary feet and refusing to throw the ball with the fire he had before said lose

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        Yep, Alex is back to being Alex, missing open receivers and hesitating to make throws. Maybe with the bye week and a more favorable schedule he can get back on track. I still think we will win 5 of the next 6 games (really we should win all 6, but….). At this point I’m thinking the last game at Denver will be a throw away game, maybe then we’ll see Mahomes.

        • ladner morse

          I’m going to remain an Alex apologist… when he gets protection, he’s MVP quality. When he doesn’t, he’s running for his life and not able to still see the open receivers. I think the introduction of Mahomes in his life has forced him to go further into exploring open receivers AFTER the protection has broken down. However, when you have no time… you have not time.

          Also, when in training camp, the WRs learned to come back to the QB because Mahomes might hit them which they’d never learned to do before. Now, at the season’s mid-mark… the WRs have also reverted to old habits. Alex fault? Who knows. However, I think the week off will help Alex more than it helps anyone on the team.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I have noticed in the past few games, when Alex is scrambling he is simply throwing the ball away more often when there appears to be an open receiver. I say appears to be because I know his view is considerably different than ours. I also know that Sunday he bailed on two (that I noticed) really solid pockets.
            I fully believe that playing AS11 this year and having Mahomes sit and learn is the best approach for the long term of the organization. I also believe for our offense to truly go to the next level, we need better and more aggressive QB play. Whether or not that turns out to be Mahomes only time will tell.

          • ladner morse

            The offensive line simply must be better. Better as in “much improved.” Schwartz blew a few pass protection blocks on Sunday which doesn’t seem like him and while I love the combo of LDT and Schwartz I think the rest of the line must be upgraded for the OL to take the next step. So, when does that happen? No time soon is the answer. Reid is too stuck on the players he has but I am more convinced than not that this group can not dominate through the offseason… not enough to win a couple of games and make it to the SB.

            So, let me ask you… if this OL is only stout on the right side… just how good can you expect AS11 or Mahomes to be?

            The answer to that is… they’ll excel against mid-tier teams and fail against the leagues best.

          • freshmeat62

            I’m hoping that w/ LDT back in the line that they will get back to where they were at the start of the season. My question is whatever happened to Ehinger? Are we to believe that Witzmann has beaten him out? This guy is stumbling all over himself.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I agree that Schwartz had a bad day, I wrote that in a different comment above (or below), I would include Morse as a good OL. But also the OL has been change up the last two games, first with Morse coming back and then with LDT’s return, so miscues were bound to happen.
            We expect our pass rushers to beat the opponents OL and so not expecting ours to lose on occasion might be unrealistic. Our LT isn’t changing anytime soon but that just leaves LG to upgrade. I haven’t been impressed with the play of Witzmann but I guess the coaches think Ehinger won’t be an upgrade.
            Mahomes spent his college career making plays running for his life without an OL in front of him. Other QB’s do a decent job of that in the NFL. Whether or not Mahomes will be one of those is yet to be seen, but we know Alex isn’t.

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    I agree Ransom, Dorsey and Reid turned things around in a hurry, and I think after 4 years of Pioli, Dorsey looked like a draft god. But he did make plenty of mistakes in free agency, particularly among the O-line. Veach will have to make some very unpopular decisions to straighten out the cap.

    • drwillez37

      There’s plenty of fat to trim New England does it every year and they still kick up dust every year. We need some bug coaching changes on the defensive side of the ball. And if anyone says Rex Ryan I swear I’ll throw up my lunch.

      • Homer Dave

        too late, Matt Verderame already said Ryan via tweeter. I did spit up just a bit.

  • berttheclock

    Excellent breakdown, Hawthorne. I do have one quibble about the resigning of Bowe. In retrospect, it did place the Chiefs in a bind with the Cap. But, remember, at the time, the Chiefs did not have another quality wide out. Plus, the market at that moment was set by two other GMs overpaying two wide outs. Dorsey tried to fit Bowe’s salary in between those two.

    I still maintain one of the biggest mistakes made by Dorsey was listening to Veach about obtaining Mahomes II. I still have nothing against the young QB except the large amount of money paid out by moving up from 27 to 10, plus, giving away the 91 pick and the 1st for next season hurt the team from both the Cap problem, plus, not being able to add more depth and quality last year and next year. If you, also, figure in Dorsey’s listening to whomever (Veach?) about the 2 players from Southern Cal, McQuay III late in the draft and the UDFA, Mama, that completely went against the view that Dorsey could find Gold in the late rounds and from UDFAs.

    As for Veach, yes, he has made a few good moves, but, as I had to endure the garbage years of both Steadman and Schaaf and see the blunders made by King Carl, plus, Pioli, I, as a born and raised Kansan, believe in the Missouri motto of “Show me” concerning young Mr Veach.

    As far as being nice to some fellow fans, I do have an excellent memory recalling what has been said to me and I do not suffer fools lightly. I try to treat everyone with respect, unless, they attempt to impugn me personally. I happen to be from a lost generation where both Republicans and Democrats could disagree with one another, but, treat each other with respect and even be able to compromise. Sadly, those days are long gone. If this Great Nation is going to be able to dig itself out of the present problems, those long ago days are going to have to be recalled and put into effect by both sides. I await the return to a time where there will be more civility and moderation and far less zealotry from the fringes.

    • drwillez37

      Now what IF Patrick comes in next season and uses the talent of this team like the proper Qb should and destroys every defense in his path? Granted that’s a huge IF but it’s possible, and the way everyone talks about him would lead one to beleive it’s more then the normal stand by your man mubo jumbo from teammates. There is so much young talent on this team on the offense, but as we’ve seen in the past DEFENSE wins championships and I’m a FIRM believer in that. So I do stand behind what your saying I just don’t think the Mahomes deal was a poor choice. The rest of the draft was

      • requires the guy calling plays to do his job as well. I don’t buy into the get rid of Al at all. Defense? I wholly and completely agree with.

    • I really am not short-sighted. I see problems on Defense, yes. I see problems on offense. Yes. Is the sky falling? No.

      Apology: this is too lengthy but I wanted to get my thoughts on the board.

      Bert’s comments are very apropos. I am ignoring the political response here, it’s not the right venue for it — and I promised myself that any politics I would write about would be the NFL variety, or Chiefs internals. but otherwise, Bert is right on the money.

      I believe that the Patrick Mahomes Pick was the wrong way to go.

      I supported Mr. Dorsey across the board. I disagree that Dorsey, across the 5 years of drafting, made errors which are a detriment to the Chiefs(as a future player view).

      PMII. I like him. He appears to me to be the QB of the future that will work. Was he what I wanted? Absolutely not. This draft was a draft for defense pure and simple. If we had worked things my way, where we have weaknesses now? I think we would have gone a long way with just 2 picks to make the defense one of the best in the NFL. Maybe 3 in this draft it was very deep. OLB, ILB, CB could all have been solved. But Dorsey and CO. chose to get Patrick. Okay. We have future talent at the same time in the person’s of at least Eligwe and Kpass. We’ll see. Sitting in the background are guys like Chesson and McQuay. We’ll see. Recall we used a pick and future pick to get up to #10. We made other moves which were aimed at getting the RB(yes, my view of that to get Hunt was a great move). And yes, we had cap space problems so using the 9 picks we had would have meant a guy in the draft wouldn’t be signed or would have gone to the ps or released. Dorsey, with the needs of the team accomplished his goal. Or was it Reid? I have already explained my view of what happened internally. Was Mahomes Dorsey’s star pick, or was it ordered. Was this where Reid’s differences with Dorsey or Hunt came to light? We don’t know. I do know what Dorsey accomplished and there is no other GM during that 5 year period who did what he did with what was in the bank. His scouting crew was par none and acknowledge universally in around the NFL. Was it perfect? Surely not. Was it very, very good. Absolutely. Is the Sky falling? Absolutely not.

      Veach: It’s too early to tell. He had moves that I supported. One of those was Ragland. We got a 1st round ILB (or high 2nd) for little or nothing for example. That is just one case. Ragland appears to me, to finally be getting his NFL Game speed down. This takes time. But that pickup alone was a very good one for Veach getting thngs going.

      . 6-3 is good. Except for Philly? yeah. Pederson’s bunch are on a roll.

      • berttheclock

        Thanks. As to any political comment, my thoughts, also, went to zealots of either position including sports sites. When, I think of zealotry, I remember that both Danton and Robespierre put together the Committee of Public Safety during the French Revolution and heads began to fall. However, as the reign of terror grew, the zealots turned on one another and both Danton and Robespierre were tried and convicted by the same group and executed.

        • drwillez37

          That’s karma for ya!!!

        • :)…. the “zealota” go back a lot farther than 20 sep 1787. One result was the “Disaspora” and Masada. 500+ years before, it was Socrates who drank his hemlock with wine as the sails of his ship appeared off the harbor. I don’t think it begins and ends, in other words, with the Kremlin in mid-town manhattan so to speak.

          • berttheclock

            Also, the revolution in Russia began with the more moderates taking control. Then, the Bolsheviks slaughtered them.

          • it goes on. when you mentioned the sep rev, I think much of Dr. Zchivago. Or you could go to the Austro-Hungarian-German alliances and 1933. Or it’s internal Putsch, now that the socialist and Nazi’s rid their world of the communists, Hitler and Co then ended the socialists and the national socialists took over(all of these gain power via “Force”… the rest is sort of, well, history from our side. There is another version from Hungary, Latvia, the Ukraine, etc. We don’t get that view at all. Even in my collegiate studies of German History, Russian History did not get much of mention of the emergence of Germany as a world power, the many nations surrounding it and intent on keeping it a minor player, this from th tim of perhaps 1850 or before, the war in 1870 etc. It is very complicated.

            Much like the NFL, eh?

            ah well. France’s Liberte, Fraternite and Egalite were quite different than, say, Benjamin Franklin and Co, and Franklin’s closing remarks that 17 sep 1787 are telling…. The remark about the two sisters covers the “squabble” we see, left, right or univolved(which you cannot be in the end) — his remarks read to the assembly because Franklin was too ill to speak them: “…. It is therefore that the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my
            own judgment, and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. Most
            men indeed as well as most sects in Religion, think themselves in
            possession of all truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is
            so far error. Steele a Protestant in a Dedication tells the Pope, that
            the only difference between our Churches in their opinions of the
            certainty of their doctrines is, the Church of Rome is infallible and
            the Church of England is never in the wrong. But though many private
            persons think almost as highly of their own infallibility as of that of
            their sect, few express it so naturally as a certain french lady, who in
            a dispute with her sister, said “I don’t know how it happens, Sister
            but I meet with no body but myself, that’s always in the right-Il n’y a
            que moi qui a toujours raison….”

          • freshmeat62

            You two should start a history blog site. I for one would be a reader. I’m kind of a history nut, but mostly American History. Right now I have somewhere around 40 books all some sort of history in the case by my bed, and thats what I have left after giving over a hundred to the local library. And that doesn’t count all of the Time Life series books. But you 2 are well over my head. For me it’s a nice break from the Chiefs for a while.

          • ladner morse

            I would agree.

            Bye Week = History Week

            hehe

          • I am “too eclectic” according to the chair of the history department of my collegiate endeavors. After I had 36 hours of undergrad history, I changed majors: Communication. Now, that is a completely different focus. Of course my idea was to become a “talking head”. I did a lot of work related to theory and a study of the effect of media vis a vis the sway and the intent to sway the public. I was offered a station manager position, a teaching position(found I really didn’t like the smart ass kids and this is the 70s now), and both were far under the amount of money offered by Big Blue. That’s how I became a software engineer…. An even weirder story all the way around(30+years). And get this: I was knocking round texas, chased from Missouri due to a woman in a sort of a commitment, felt a change of scenery was a good I idea. Worked the oil field, went back to MO 73, took over the farm from Dad and that’s how I paid for my education. If I ever get it done, I have a trilogy of Novella’s about the area that extends south to Drexel and beyond along the state line — the bloody border if you will. Our farm was in the order number 11 ground — Amerugia.

          • A woman in town, highly intelligent, wife of the local mechanic shop owner, was an avid historian, so was the librarian, Mrs. Jenkins. Well, Katherine K. was the woman and my mom and she became friends. She was highly intelligent and so were the children, at least most of them and it was a large family. I was at the library, trying to find a book I hadn’t read. I was probably ten. Roy Kenagy asked me if I wanted some really good material and I said yes. He went to a shelf and handed me Lee’s Lieutenants, vol I. It went on from there. Roy, Beth, David among the older children of that family had a great influence on me. I gave a speech for the JR SR prom dinner as a Freshman, and I presented a rendition of “Filling that Hiatus”. David Kenagy laughed his tail off and was seated at a table right in front of me. Sorry to say, most of the “Student body” present, didn’t understand the humor. Oh well. (Robert Benchley, 1932 New Yorker). and the Algonquin round table, say 1925-1930, met as the vicious club was one of my favorite subjects. these humorists, authors, even playrights met daily so it was a constant ebb and flow of NY personalities, actors, lawyers, playrights, etc… It became a show and a slew of material for the Papers and the New Yorker. No it wsa the vicious circle. Anyway, Mom’s heroin for the modern woman was a member…. “Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses….”…

            My favorite from her(Dorothy Parker–“not so deep a well” for the above ditty)…

            I wish I could drink like a lady,
            on drink, two at the most.
            Three I am under the table.
            Four, I am under the host.

            So there is a piece of Americana, now a century old. huh. The reach of these people who gathered was from Manhattan to the west coast. Hollywood was just getting started a bit, but really came to fruition in the 30s. keep in mind, that my influence here is quite historical as well — my Mom’s Dad(his brothers and cousins) were all from what is now Wetzel Co WV…. they and their father worked the oil field biz. One was blown up in an explosion in OK. My grandfather Calvert, b 1876, d 1967. Mom was born at Big Heart Texas, 1922. Arthur Clay was SuperIntendant in the depression era. Later they removed to Wild Horse. He retired in 1943.

      • drwillez37

        Your right if we went all defense in this draft from start to finish we would still be undefeated probably. Now we’re ready on the offensive side (next year)but seriously lacking on the most important side.

        • Homer Dave

          If KC had gone all defense all the way through the draft the RBs right now would be West and Spiller. Hunt has been more instrumental than nearly every single offensive player minus Smith and maybe, MAYBE Kelce. KC would be worse than 6-3 without Hunt’s services this season.

          • If the draft was done from this framework: OLB, ILB, CB, RB, you would have still picked up probably even one more pick that would be meaningful, and this could include Hunt. Dorsey and Co had selected Hunt as a target and if we had not traded up, selected 1 of the area needs on Defense with the round 1 pick, then the draft would have shaped the defense, had hunt, and probably 2 of the defense position needs in the first 100 picks. I owuld say that was very probable. I could thn have added a QB after the 100 to be a back up — but of course, I am not a get rid of Al Smith at any cost type guy nor am I worried that the Chiefs wopuldn’t or would have found the right QB at the same time, at least to fill #2 for them. Mahomes is not ready to play and neither would have been Webb for example. Or take the Bay: Hundley has a lot longer to prepare and he is in the learning phase while the pack loses. I just don’t buy into that trade up and lost picks. The ramifications are 2 years long in effect.

          • Homer Dave

            I get that you don’t like the spending of extra picks to get Mahomes, likewise, I didn’t like the spending of the extra picks to get Smith so we’re pretty even there, lol. Hunt was picked up at 86, iirc. There is no telling if he would still be there in the 4th.

            I also get that this last draft was defense heavy but that doesn’t mean that Dorsey and Co. would have drafted impact players. The only player drafted in the 1st by KC by Dorsey that has had an immediate impact is Peters, the rest have all been projects.

    • Homer Dave

      Don’t worry Bert ol’ buddy ol’ pal, you don’t have to be nice to me: “As far as being nice to some fellow fans, I do have an excellent memory recalling what has been said to me and I do not suffer fools lightly”

      See, your unsubtle, consistent jabbing reminds me of a Chihuahua nipping at a person’s heels. Any dog that weighs less than 50 pounds is a cat and I don’t like heel biting, OR cats.

  • drwillez37

    I decided to torture myself last night and I reached the Dallas game. And what I’ve been noticing is how long Alex is holding onto the ball. The first 6 weeks he was firing it off so fast thedefense had no bide what was happening now he’s holding longer then it takes for me to chug a beer. And not only that but he looks lost at times lime he’s in panic mode when it’s not even called to do so. Now I’m not saying it would make any sense to put Mahomes in “BUT” IF we come back and lose to the Giants and I’ll be at that game…then may e it would be smart to at least let him start then next week just to settle Alex down or to jump start this dying offense…now as far as the DEFENSE is concerned….I’m totally lost as how to fix that trash heap….either way he’s hoping!!!

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Naw, I wouldn’t pull Alex. After our bye, we play the next six weeks on a regular schedule (Sundays). Four of those home games and the two away games should be winnable against New Jersey A & B.

      • that is, a “you’ve gotta be kiddin’, right” pull Al Smith who is ranked as the #1 QB in the NFL? I would say pull the playcaller first. Good haven when things go wrong. blame the QB.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          I have been a staunch AS11 supporter through 3.8125 seasons. With that being said, I have come to realize that an upgrade at the QB position is needed to consistently get where we (or at least I) would like the Chiefs to be.

          • you don’t pull that QB for the unproven(AS/11 or Big Ben. It maks no sense and tosses PM to the wolves, writes off the season. It is not going to happen. I can’t see your point of view. Al Smith is going to play for 6 or 8 more years. Go back to the plays called and the lack of flow. I go from there. I am not big on any rookie QB ever. I am not saying PH is not a good pick. It was not a good draft due to the picks given up. That affects the 2018 draft as well. We have a QB that wins games. He leads the NFL. I cannot possibly see the point. Your last part of the comment is true. But 2017 was not the year to do it. My view. defense first, especially this draft. We did pull in Ragland with economy(last years top 30 or 40 ILB. I am very good with that. But we still needed an OLB, CB and RB. We got the RB, excllnt pick. but due to PM? Th other position needs couldn’t be covered. We gave it up to get PM(Unproven selection). I go look at who we could have taken in round 1 and 2. Still gotten Hunt, and maybe one more opportunistic choice.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I think you misinterpreted my first reply to drwillez37. I would NOT replace AS11 this season. Next year is a whole different discussion.

          • yeah, I did. I was responding to the wrong thread. Sorry….

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Not a big deal at all! 🙂

  • drwillez37

    If I was Peters and Romo said I make Deion Sanders look like an all pro tackler and if that didn’t motivate me then nothing will. I’d still keep him but we need a REAL #1 CB to play opposite him. And I do mean a real #1 cause Peters is NOT that, he only is on our team cause we got no #2, 3 or 4 that don’t tackle like pop warner children

    • berttheclock

      Sanders, once, said, “They don’t pay me to tackle”.

  • drwillez37

    Stumbling into the playoffs is alright as long as we get hot when it starts. Cause that momentum could push any team into the Lombardi trophy

    • now there is an observation of what is “parity” in the NFL. It is here, it is what the powers that be want. Right now, I think, from what I read, that there would be 8 new teams to this years playoff picture if it continues it’s course.

  • tm1946

    In case you did not hear it – today- Petro went off on the Chiefs and the need to not continue to ride a dead horse.

    I paraphrase:

    1. Sutton has the time with the week off to revamp the defense…. if he will.

    2. Assuming we continue to play like we have after winning 5 games. There has to be changes made in coaching….. Clark Hunt needs to sit down with Reid (he is not going anywhere…. UNLESS) decide what does it take to keep the good coaches and say adios to the others. Now comes the UNLESS: If Reid refuses (remember Dick Vermeil and keeping Gregg Robinson as DC), Reid does not leave the office with his job.

    3. Petro says what got Reid fired in Philly was he was running the entire show and DC Johnson died…. he loaded the staff with cronies who could only stand around and get a paycheck.

    4. If the ship cannot be righted, other than Reid (and Toub – I say) every coach may need to go.

    Now Petro is not a raver. Pretty level headed and if he sees the coaches are not doing adequate, they probably suck…..IMO

    • Toub will be getting HC offers after this season.

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        No better than ST’s are playing this season, I doubt it.

        • tm1946

          Thinking the coaches have taken a big step backwards if being a HC is a goal, SO FAR…. It is – what have you done for me today? If you cannot get your position players to get better or at least solid…. what good are you?

        • Homer Dave

          beat me to it, STs is average at best this year on a good day, most other days they are below average just a hair.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Actually, the coverage units are doing pretty good. The return units not so much. The field goal unit is doing some Buttkicking!

          • Homer Dave

            yeah, I generalized a bit there…shouldn’t have done that. Buttkicker is kicking butts though.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Yes he is, and I was guilty of the same.

          • and keep in mind, the intermediate pass hail mary TD. That was S/T at it’s finest.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            LOL, play calling and execution at it’s finest. Seemed to be more effective than the hail mary dump off for 13 yards or the hail mary scramble of seasons past.

          • Homer Dave

            I wonder if that play will ever work again? or if it can become a staple.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I think it might be good for a long gain, but I wouldn’t plan on it scoring every time.

    • Homer Dave

      Several coaches I would keep, you know, the ones making a positive effect on the team. Bienemy every day of the week, the new WR’s coach is bringing guys along nicely for his first year and…well, TWO, two coaches I would keep, lol.

      • tm1946

        If Bienemy cannot get Hunt back on track (realize there are other factors), not sure his job is secure. WR position coach, again other factors – injuries – but again the WRs are not sterling examples of players reaching the heights…. just saying others can do the same thing and if you cannot fire 53 players, the coaches are next best thing.

        • Homer Dave

          thing is, no job in the NFL is secure. I agree about no WRs are world beaters this year but I am seeing WRs being used differently than they were last season. Less blocking for when Smith has to scramble and more running to get open instead. That’s a good thing imho.

          I’m not sure what direction Veach will go this next offseason in regards to the coaches. He might fire them all or he might keep them to a one. Kind of a untrodden path he is taken here since he was a large part of the last regime but he’ll surely want to put his own stamp on things.

          • tm1946

            Exactly and that is why I strongly dislike (as in hate) first time GMs, they seem to want to re-invent the wheel and show the rest of the NFL how they can do it differently but better than all the GMs there ever was.

          • Homer Dave

            that’s a fact…but those GMs are also trying to be true to their coaching tree from which they emerged and bring in their own guys. The NFL coaching thing really is a close-knit group that runs in cliques. This is why I have not idea what Veach will do. Will he continue is some manner akin to what Dorsey taught him or will Veach burn every statue and remembrance of Dorsey to ash.

          • tm1946

            Don’t smoke but still own matches.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            IIRC the way Hunt set things up when he hired Reid and then Dorsey, was both men report to him individually. The GM has control of the roster etc. but not the coaches. If there is any assistant coaches fired, I believe that would have to come directly from Reid, without the GM’s input. Although I would think Hunt could have plenty of influence if he so chooses.

          • Homer Dave

            yup, that sounds correct, man.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          A lot of different OL players in Reid’s 5 years here, IIRC Heck is the OL coach all 5 years.

          • Homer Dave

            yup, Heck….I wonder how much Heck dislikes Dorsey for all the McGlyn’s and Linkenlogs.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I’m more inclined to blame Heck. He got the number one draft pick a few years ago and has almost managed to turn him into an average tackle. Last year Dorsey signed the best RT in the game and he sure as hell doesn’t look the part now. LDT has come on strong after 4 years but that could be in spite of Heck’s influence. The Doc has to be a pretty smart dude.

          • tm1946

            Mostly agree…. I had heard Dorsey went after our RT because of one game where he handled Von Miller…. one game. True or not?

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            There was one game when Schwartz was in Cleveland that he handled Miller easily, that is true. That being the only reason Dorsey signed him? I doubt it.

          • Homer Dave

            Schwartz just handled Miller like a rag doll the other week. Schwartz is for real and a great signing, imho.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            For the most part, he sured played like crap in Dallas.

          • Homer Dave

            yeah, he got handled in Dally but bad days are going to happen. I still believe that the Schwartz signing was a HUGE benefit to the organization and worth every penny.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            The thing that got me on Sunday was his false starts. I think he had 3.

          • Homer Dave

            yeah, he had a bad day. And false starts? No excuse for them when you are a veteran player.

  • drwillez37

    Where’s the toughness in this team. Besides EB I wouldn’t dare say anyone on defense is showing a meanness or want to lay someone out!!! This is football put a hit and roll the hips…bury the other team in the ground!!!

  • berttheclock

    The Buffalo Bills used the 27 pick from the Chiefs to draft the five eleven DB from LSU, Tre’Davious White. White has had 26 solo tackles with 5 assists, 12 passes defended and one INT.

  • So, we have a hole in pass defense — Revis was mentioned wasn’t very good and that is why he is not in the NFL. But Cromartie brings a thought. There was a lot of fan reaction to the DISCUSSION and Cromartie chiming in himself. I think Cromartie might provide some help … anyway, here is Ben Almquist at Fansided who observed:

    ” … However, apparently veteran corner Antonio Cromartie has noticed, and he is ready to get on the field.

    The circumstances of this news are pretty interesting. This was not some
    insider talk about KC making calls. It wasn’t a sports media outlet
    talking about available free agents. No, Antonio Cromartie himself made
    this appeal through a Twitter exchange he wasn’t even involved in.

    It started with the Kansas City area 610 Sports Radio textline. Fans
    were apparently calling for the Chiefs to look into Antonio Cromartie
    and Darrelle Revis.

    Of course, 610 tweeted about this, and an exchange took place. Then the
    unexpected happened…Antonio Cromartie chimed in via his Twitter,
    despite not being tagged in the conversation.

    I’m still available. I know the defense already. Coach was with the Jets. So the terminology I already have.

    ANTONIO CROMARTIE

    @CRO31

    I’m still available. I know the defense already. Coach was with the Jets. So the terminology I already have.

    5:15 AM – Nov 7, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Not so long ago I would have said this was ludicrous, but even if Cromartie has lost two or three steps, he would still be an upgrade over Gaines and Acker. Maybe over Mitchell as well.

      • Homer Dave

        lol, but the fatalistic Chief in me says that Cromartie would have the same effect as Patrick Surtain years ago.

  • Homer Dave

    This is painful to watch but not only for the obvious loss of step in DJ’s game..but watch how easily JH50 gets washed out. Yes, JH made the trip, but it was 5 yards later.

    Most of you already know but one of the illustrations of where Johnson is at in his career now. pic.twitter.com/eEgnKADgdA— Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) November 7, 2017

    • It appears to me that DJ had the outside responsibility. He turned the play in as he was supposed to do. the OLB was rushing the passer. That is not a good call by Nick, with whom I often disagree.

      • Homer Dave

        That’s 57 on the o/s contain right there (KPL, right?), DJ56 is lined up in the traditional MIKE local right there instead.

        • Who gets outside turns the play in. The man outside turns it in. That is what happened. If he doesn’t they get the sideline on the run. KPL? Okay. missd the number. 56 fends off th blocker and makes the tackle. I don’t think that is an illustration of what Nick is attempting to be critical about. DJ get’s to the ball carrier but doesn’t make a solid stop — he is fending off a blocker to make the play. There were plays v Denver that I felt DJ did not respond to, where he was able to shift direction as he had before. That is specific to his feet. He came back too soon I would guess, or this is the curtain call season. this just was not an illustration of what Nick is implying.

          • Homer Dave

            lol, sorry buddy, I’m going to have to loan you my coke bottle glasses. Stop the video near the 9-11 second mark and it shows DJ 5-9 yards behind the play. He was ineffectual as could be on that play.

    • tm1946

      Local media seem to agree DJ has lost a step, can still see the play but cannot get there like in pre injury days. While I agree, have to wonder if part of problem is Sutton’s game plan. No Berry, maybe DJ’s role has moved him out of position…. just saying…. we seem destined to operate a Chinese fire drill and hope someone gets it right.

      • Homer Dave

        I was hoping that DJ could play like London Fletcher did for so many years, or even Ray Lewis. Both of those guys played well past their prime by playing smart. I hate the situation DJ is in, he’s one of my favorite Chiefs ever and I wish he would go out strong sooner than weak, later.

        • tm1946

          In ye olden days, Johnny Robinson got old and used his intelligence to prolong his career…. some can, some cannot. Which side of the equation DJ falls into is to be determined.

    • Ribs

      I don’t understand the analysis on this play. DJ has likely lost a step but it is not shown in this play. The yardage allowed was given up by Houston after a stunt with KPL. KPL had outside contain, Houston got pushed out of his position, DJ covers the inside gap and when the RB goes outside, he pursues the play.

      • Homer Dave

        For me, I have to think 4 years or so back when DJ would have shot that gap and the play would have been for a loss. Hate to say it, but DJ has reverted back to just being a damn good ILB.

  • Homer Dave

    our old friend Von Miller getting abused right here, it is a beautiful thing indeed.

    Break this down for me @geoffschwartz https://t.co/PxIiRCbxT5— mike freeman (@mikefreemanNFL) November 7, 2017

    • Homer Dave

      sorry ’bout that, one more try..

      Here's that Lane Johnson Von Miller toss one more time. pic.twitter.com/748GfrfJOA— James Simpson (@JS_Football) November 7, 2017

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        Awesome, most people have to pay to ride a merry-go-round!

        • Homer Dave

          Lane just plain clubs Miller down. I LUVS it.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I got POed at CBS. just when the thrashing got to going really well, they went and switched games. At least they won’t be able to do that this Sunday night.

          • Homer Dave

            I had no idea that CBS switched games…kinda scary that networks re changing games in order to chase ratings.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Yep , they’ve done it before. But never left the home team. but when both teams are “out of market”, they will switch to a game that they deem “more entertaining”.

      • larry mckinney

        Thing of beauty.

  • Homer Dave

    Colts claim D.J. White off of waivers https://t.co/FLN0vLxTLc— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) November 6, 2017

  • Homer Dave

    Chiefs signed 2016 Patriots seventh-rounder Devin Lucien to the practice squad.— Oliver Thomas (@OliverBThomas) November 7, 2017

    Devin Lucien (born June 26, 1993) is an American football wide receiver for the New England Patriots of the National Football League (NFL). He played college football at UCLA before transferring as a graduate to Arizona State.

    But if only Dorsey had drafted Wilson in the 3rd round instead of allowing NE to draft Lucien 4 years later or so in the 7th. Man, this team would be so much better. SUPER BOWL BABY!!!

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      OK, Why? BTW, that’s not very subtle, lol.

      • Homer Dave

        hehe

      • ladner morse

        Sure glad we got him… and placed him on the Practice Squad so no one else could touch him… oh, wait.
        hehe