Systemic Problems- Part I: The West Coast Offense

 

Systemic Problems- Part I:

The West Coast Offense

 

Everyone’s position on Alex Smith is established at this point. Rather than spend a ton of time on that, I thought it would be interesting to explore some of the Chiefs issues that more fans can agree on. In the NFL, there are a wide variety of offensive and defensive systems. There are three notable systems that the Chiefs run: The West Coast Offense, A Zone Blocking Run Scheme and a 3-4 Defense. It is my personal opinion that, in a perfect world, the WCO is the best offensive system, the ZBS is the best run blocking system, and the 3-4 is the best defensive system. What is the problem? Chiefs don’t live in a perfect world and, as a consequence, they’re running out-dated or sub-optimal systems that limit their ability to compete, come playoff time. Those problems start with the West Coast Offense.

 

The West Coast Offense: While a variety of offenses fall under the umbrella of β€œWest Coast”, there are distinct factors that remain the same with each WCO.

 

#1. The West coast offense is a timing based offense, where the WRs routes are synced to the QBs drop. A QB drop, is the number of steps he takes back, from his starting point, before he stops to throw the ball. A short pass would be a three-step drop, a slightly longer would be a five step, and a deep throw would be a seven step drop. This, of course, assumes that the primary read (target the QB is looking for) is open. If he’s not, successive routes should be timed out to come open as the QB would be coming off the previous read. When well executed, this offense allows the QB to quickly progress through his reads, and easily find WRs who are open, or, better yet, throw to WRs who will be open when the ball gets there. The potential problems that arise, in this system, are WRs who don’t run their routes precisely, a QB who can’t read a zone blitz, or disguised zone coverage and a failure to properly sync the QBs drop with the WRs routes.

 

#2. The West Coast offense is multiple. This means they run many different plays out of each formation and run a lot of formations. This leads to a very large playbook, and some very wordy play-calls. At its best, this makes the offense impossible to predict, and provides them with a huge arsenal of plays to attack various defenses. The problems that arise from this, are that the playbook is very difficult to learn. This means players take a long time to learn the system. While a rookie WR can start in a WCO, it’s generally the exception rather than the rule. The complexity of marrying a myriad of plays, with precise timing and crisp routes is something few rookies and many vets, can’t pull off in a single season. In fact, many WRs don’t truly master a WCO till their third year in the system.

 

What Does This Mean For The Chiefs: Back when Andy Reid started coaching, NFL teams had a lot more time to practice. Prior to the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, teams had five more weeks of off-season activities, and QBs were allowed to spend more time with coaches reviewing tape. This solved a lot of the problems that the WCO faces. QBs, WRs and TEs, had the practice time to properly sync their routes and put what they remembered from the playbook, on the field. With drastically reduced practice time, and less time for tape review, WCO’s have become increasingly reliant on veteran WRs. The loss of a quality receiver hurts most teams, for WCO teams, it’s a huge blow. Chiefs offense, at the beginning of year, shows you the potential of the WCO. They had the best offense in the league. It only took losing two WRs, Conely and Wilson, to derail the entire thing and reveal the major issue with the WCO.

 

Tyreek Hill and Demarcus Robinson are both only in their 2nd year in the system. Smith’s timing is not properly synced with either of them. Hill’s speed, and ability to adjust to throws has helped, but without a veteran WR (DAT doesn’t count because he’s not good) Chiefs offense has sputtered and died. In the NFL today, you will deal with injuries and, because of the way the salary cap works, roster turnover. It is not reasonable for a team to need 4-5 WRs with 3+ years of experience on the roster. As good as WCO can be, it’s always an injury or two away from being far less effective.

 

Solution: The Erhardt-Perkins System:

If you want a more in depth read about the history of the Ernhardt-Perkins system, I recommend this article: http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/ by Chris Brown, or read the chapter in his book β€œThe Art Of Smart Football”, on the EP offense. Here, we’ll just examine a few key differences between the EP and WCO that make it a more viable option for modern NFL teams. What makes the Ernhardt-Perkins so different? It all starts with the play calling.

 

Unlike the WCO, the EP doesn’t have long complicated play calls for each play. Instead, it uses simple word associations for formations, or styles of play, and numbers or signs to denote routes. What does this mean exactly? While a Chiefs play call could be a 14-word jumble that takes a while to spit out in the huddle, the Patriots EP can be run from the no huddle, with a few words and some quick signs. The reason the Patriots no huddle is so effective, is that it’s not any different from their regular offense. The entire playbooks is available to Brady from the no huddle.

Aside from improving the no huddle offense, the EP also has the distinct advantage of being easier to learn. Outside the QB, nobody in the offense has to know what anybody else is doing. You know what position you’re playing and listen for your route. Instead of having to memorize a ton of plays, you just memorize a handful of routes. This is one reason why the Patriots offense can change so much from game to game. The only people who have to know the full play calls are the OC and the QB. In the NFL, where WRs are often injured, it’s critical to get new players up to speed, and the EP allows you to do that.

 

Another distinct advantage of a the EP is practice time. With limited time to practice plays, every second of training camp counts. If your play-call takes three seconds to communicate vs 10, that adds up to being able to practice more plays, or practice the same plays more times. Remember though, WRs are just practicing routes, or blocking patterns, so practicing a given play actually helps them get better at multiple potential play calls. The EP lacks the finesse and sophistication of the WCO, but it’s far easier to practice, execute, and acclimate new players to. You also don’t have to spend a chunk of training camp practicing a 2-minute offense, because your 2-minute offense is the same as your regular offense, just without a huddle.

 

Chiefs offense still has the potential to be the best in the league, as a WCO, but only if their players can stay healthy. If they were willing to make a big change, in the way they call plays, it could level out the offensive performance. While their peak performance might dip, we would likely see less abysmal performances, like the Giants game. New WRs and TEs could quickly get involved in the offense. Smith (or whoever the QB may be) would have far more options at his disposal to deal with surprise motions from the defense.

 

Bonus Thought: If you follow me on twitter, you’ve already heard me say this, but I think the WCO is the reason Chiefs hang on to Demetrius Harris (and hung on to Ross Travis for so long). If you can find a player who’s good enough to keep, but not so good as to be expensive, you can fit more veterans on the roster who know the playbook. For the WCO a mediocre veteran is often more useful than a talented rookie who doesn’t know the playbook, or have his routes properly synced.

 

You can read “Systemic Problems- Part II: Zone Blocking” tomorrow morning here at ArrowheadOne.

 

 

If you are viewing this in Apple News and would like to join the Discussion, [GO HERE.](http://arrowheadone.com/systemic-problems-part-i-the-west-coast-offense/#disqus_thread)

 

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Ransom Hawthorne

Ransom Hawthorne

Ransom Hawthorne is an electrician living in central KS. He's married and has two young boys. Born in KS, and raised in Tucson, Ransom spent his middle school years in southern Mexico.
Ransom Hawthorne

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  • HOMER!! Dave

    so what you are saying is, there’s a chance.

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    Great article Ransom. I’ve read several comments on here, even some last year, about wanting to switch to the Erhardt-Perkins. I just can’t imagine Reid changing the way he does things, so I’m afraid we’re stuck with his version of the WCO as long as he’s our coach.

    • HOMER!! Dave

      they’re sure as heck not going to change mid-season, with the division lead still somewhat held, etc etc.

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        Exactly, and a good reason not to change QB also.

        • HOMER!! Dave

          hehe, nope…I’m not going down that road buddy. I pole-vaulted over the fence and am firmly in the bench-Smith camp, the consequences be damned.

          I know that the insertion of Mahomes would severely, severely limit the number of options on offense but at this point I’m looking at the rest of the season as getting a jump on camp NEXT year.

          KC needs to find something that works then build upon it, and Smith ain’t workin’.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Heck, I’ve been on the wrong side of the fence most of my life, so nothing new for me. I keep thinking long term. Keeping PM on the sidelines and letting him learn the system, plus with another full off-season would have the best results for the long haul. IMO.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            We are still leading our division and you’re ready to get a jump on next season by starting a rookie quarterback?
            I might have no choice but to agree with you after a couple of more games, but right now my man, you go with continuity and hope they figure out how to adjust.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            that’s the thing though, man, there is no continuity. There is a serious short in the circuit somewhere and it keeps rearing it’s head every single week. Hell, I’ll loan Reid one of my multi-meters if he needs one, lol.

            I keep going back in my head to the constants that have been incorporated in KC since 2013- that’s Reid and Smith. Both have their shortcomings but I’m just not a believer in that Reid is not affording the offense opportunities. Sometimes he sucks, this is all too true, but I keep on seeing opportunities lost with Smith.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            If you go back to the early game you will notice something…at the snap, Smith planted and was going deep without any hesitation…..reason being, THAT was the play that came from the sideline…….now fast forward to the Bills game, that play where Kelce was wide open for what looked like a possible TD……Smith didn’t go there because he threw where he was told to throw.
            This season is playing out like a typical Reid coached game….we got a comfortable lead in the AFC West and Reid went Vanilla……he has approached this season like he does games.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            two sides to that coin: maybe those plays really were one outlet plays called by Reid, or maybe those plays were dependent on pre-snap reads by Smith.

            One thing I know is this, if Kc really is trotting out a QB that cannot run his own audibles it really is time to move on.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Which is why we drafted Mahomes for next year! lol movin’ on.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            We are still leading are division, but have lost 5 of our last 6. I don’t expect Mahomes to be all word his rookie year, but he doesn’t even have to be good to be better than Smith right now. We always gripe at coaches for playing to “not lose” instead of playing to win. Starting Smith is the ‘run the clock out’, ‘screen pass’, ‘prevent defense’ type of move. Mahomes is the 50 yard bomb in the 4th quarter when you’re up by 10. I’ll take the latter.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            Sorry man…..but right now, You guys are just torturing yourselves……no way in Sam Hell does Reid bench a veteran QB for an unproven rookie while leading their division. You’re giving Mahomes way to much credit….our problems go way beyond a struggling QB.

    • ladner morse

      True. However, don’t you think there’s more of a chance that Clark Hunt fires Reid than Reid switches to the EP? Espn has this piece about the rapid decline of the Chiefs and if this downwardness continues and the Chiefs lose more than they win from here on out… maybe Hunt comes to his senses and decides he can afford a $7.5M bump in the road.

      • ladner morse

        In that case… I think there’s a good possibility Ransom’s analysis comes into play because Reid’s replacement may be more likely to go to the EP.

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        Honestly, I can’t see either happening. Reid isn’t going to change from what he has always done, just doesn’t seem to be his MO. The Chiefs just spent two 1st round picks, plus some, to draft Mahomes. What if a new coach didn’t want Mahomes, you know, doesn’t think Mahomes fits his system. That’s a lot of wasted draft capital.
        My guess is, we’re stuck with our current HC for at least 3 more seasons.

        • ladner morse

          Hey, no one thought Dave Pedersen could go to Philly and turn them into the best team in the league either… so stranger things have happened. Since Hunt is directly in charge of evaluating his head coach now, and responsible for hiring/firing the same said person… we already know he has the gonads to yank his successful, big name, GM’s chain. All I’m saying is… if the Chiefs bottom out, especially after their huge start… there’s a possibility.

        • tm1946

          I agree but what if …. sit down…. what if, Mahomes is another Ford. A college kid with good creds and just not good enough/able to play in the NFL. We are still screwing around with Ford hoping he is some kind of starting OLB for a full year.

          Maybe Mahomes is the real deal, but look at all the college QBs who were busts… wrong HC, wrong system, not NFL ready, college system QBs….this is not on the Chiefs (except for the #1 we gave away next year), happened to many teams.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Yep, at this point Mahomes is the hinge. He turns out great and Reid, Hunt and Veach (heck even Dorsey) are genius. Mahomes sucks and the only one left standing is the owner.

          • I fully agree with the question about Mahomes. He could be another Ford. I do think Mahomes will be an NFL QB. I believe that the question is, will he be a basic NFL QB, or well above average. I want to comment on Ford as well. He is not what we wanted to get. It doesn’t mean he is not an NFL capable OLB. He just is not going to be above a journeyman at his position. I am on who stated he needed time to emerge. He has had that time and has not done that. He is still a capable OLB and a player in the NFL.

            My point? often #1 picks don’t fulfill expectations. Ford is one of those. Mahomes? We won’t know til we get there. He won’t start 2018 either, in my view. If he spent 2 years working to internalize the playbook, the nuances, if he isn’t running all over the field to make plays(Collegiate), and he sticks to the pocket, he might be ready in 2019. I don’t think 2018. Or, Fire Reid, and get a HC who hires an offensive Coordinator who has EP or another system down pat — or has a simplified WCO that can be learned in it’s basic form quickly(vis a vis Frisco and Montana for example.

            Reid has his head up his … playbook and isn’t seeing that his play-calling isn’t getting the team execution flowing. I can say this: His playbook has plays that are WCO, Smith under center with play-action, retaining motion and utilizing a blocking back. Reid seldom goes to it. He seldom uses up tempo(again, simplifying plays called).

            In a nutshell, I think Reid is a lot of the problem with the stalled offense. The players are totally frustrated now and you can see it. I believe Reid has lost his locker room.

          • Derek

            You say Mahomet won’t start in 2018?! You must be nuts lol. I bet he startsaid at least 2 games this year… probably comes in halftime against the Raiders and wins and never looks back. Can’t wait to say I told you so.

          • I would take a bet on that for 2017. 2018? it hinges on losing Al Smith. That I would not wish to place a wager. Again, I don’t think Mahomes is going to be ready for Reid and his “system”.

            If KC were smart, PM won’t start. His footwork is awful or was. He is a gunslinger from a spread heritage. It will take work to mold his technique to even Andy’s Hybrid WCO, let alone be able to manage calling plays. Now, if you fire Reid? Different story.

          • Derek

            His footwork is quite fixed and the coaches have said as much. Everything you hear about him is he’s far ahead of the curve as all the other aspects go. He was a supposed project coming out and in just 3 months of drafting him they upgraded him to number 2. You don’t make him number 2 unless you believe he can run your system at least 80% of it. I also believe he’ll have the best roster he’s ever had in his career so 75% of his ability should be more than enough to win now. In 10 years you will be looking foolish for ever doubting him.

          • You don’t spend what you spend to get the #10 pick and not make him your #2. What evidence do you have that his footwork in a game, his instinctive reaction, won’t be the same as in college? What evidence do you have that he is going to be a top NFL QB when all is said and done?

            OTOH: Chris Taylor, KCKingdom, writes about situation, the Chiefs “Suck” and much blame can be laid at the QB. He calls out play-calling as I do, and I can see Smith’s runs, like the attempted 3rd down on the left sideline last game…. He is doing his damnedest. They are not getting completions down field, on the INT, the throw was to the outside, the WR turned in. etc. This problem is deeper than just replacing the QB.

            But also Taylor observes that maybe PM could be a spark the Chiefs need.

            The rest of your comments such as 75% or 80% are figures you grasp out of the nethersphere. I hope for the Chiefs that PM is the answer. It won’t be in 2017. That is my view. I also actually believe it would be a boon to his uptake to wait for 2019. If the lose Al Smith, the 2018 is it.

          • tm1946

            Ales still has a good rating…. if he can win enough games this year….you would be nuts to go into next year without him being the starting QB. What is he wins all of them… 11 wins and you want to dump the QB for a kid without playing a single down… that is the picture of nuts.

            Now if Alex continues to fail (not sure how many games that is), I could see Mahomes starting next year… now all you have to do is convince/force Reid to do it.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I could agree about keeping Smith for next year but for one caveat. The Salary Cap, that critter has this team totally fubar for next year. I don’t know how much is Dorsey, how much is Clark or even Reid’s influence. Heck, now some of it is on Veach. But that animal has to be brought under control and as I see it, moving is from Alex is the best option to do a lot of good the quickest.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            and DJ, and Ford, and Hali,….and Revis.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Hali and Ford, top of the list. I’m still in a wait and see mode on the other two. I’m willing to give DJ ’til the last minute to see if he can contribute next year.
            At this time, Revis is an enigma. If he comes in and plays worse than Acker, heck yeah, show him the door. But if he comes in and makes Peters our 2nd best corner, then what do you do? Maybe a three year deal with an easy out after 2 and a reduced cap hit for 2018?

          • HOMER!! Dave

            no idea there. He’s on tap for 8 million next year, iirc, with the current financial woes and an impending “reload”, I’m not sure that is in the books especially considering his age.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I think it’s 10 mil. and I agree, the age is scary, but we’ve seen guys play really well being older. That’s why i think reducing the cap hit for next year might be a good way to go IF he looks to be worth it. It might cost us a little in 3 years time, but if Veach does a decent job we should be able to handle that.

          • tm1946

            Heard on radio today 810AM, Alex has his head somewhere else…. never a QB so I do not know what he sees or thinks but his head is not right, during the games. As much of a veteran as he is…. this should not be happening….Lastly, Reid is doing nothing to remedy/fix/repair/change the QB….that is all on him .

          • What I THINK is happening. The timing and sync are flowing. Look at it this way, lets say he has a progression of targets: His primary is WR. He is covered, his second is a WR a crossing route and he doesn’t have separation that Al would like. Nxt is a RB or Kelce. That is getting to your max time right there… close to 3 seconds. RB drift? 4th. He has missed it and his head clock is saying, too long. Then he passes but is not firing the ball as he did early season(interception at end of Bills game was just that + plus the WR turned in, not out and Smith threw out. not much you can do). It’s not just Al Smith He’s lost Conley, Wilson was out. Hill is only in his second year. Andy’s system is based on plays called and timing of when a break by a receiver occurs, bing, bang, boom. But he has Robinson not Wilson for example. I want Al to see the breaking man and throw, f–k Reid’s timing and play. That is what is not happening.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            Big difference in the way Chiefs treated Mahomes and Ford though. Ford was a first round pick, #23 and Chiefs stood pat to get him, basically they weren’t worried about somebody else nabbing him first. With Mahomes, they made a really agressive move to get him in the top of the draft. Is it possible he still busts? Sure. But I think it’s far less likely than Ford.

          • tm1946

            Sorry just an example of failure/not success. I am concerned about why Mahomes is unheard of with Alex’s current problem by Reid or undercurrents.

      • tm1946

        Not really Hunt family style. Maybe try to get Reid to “officially” change how stuff is done but Reid may be to stiff necked to agree to any change…. then the ax. I figure fire a coach or two, then 1 to 2 more years of watching the wheels fall off then the next rebuild with new staff about 2019 or 20. By then raiders and broncos will have had all the AFC West leads the fans can stand and Hunt will have to make some kind of move.

  • tm1946

    Feel like I should have had cheerios and brought my reading glasses this morning back to grade school.

    IMO Ried has moved on from a WCO to a hybrid of his own making. It is well and good until the other teams have knowledge of what you do. Opposing HC’s must laugh as he runs the same stuff they have seen in film for years. If their defenses can execute their game plan, the Chiefs look like the buffoons of the league. (stealing from Bert movie scenes) Patton, in N. Africa, yells at Rommel – I read your book.

    • that would apply(well and good), to any offensive system. Then it depends on adjustments to game plan, and how plays are called…what gets the offense moving? What creates uncertainty by the secondary. holding linebackers in with play action, etc.

      • tm1946

        This sound right…. for the life of me, I cannot tell what is missing but the Chiefs seem more like a average or less team than a playoff bound one…. could change with Jets game.

    • Chiefly Bacon

      Reid incorporates concepts from other schemes, but core play-calling methods, and the timing of routes remain constants. I actually think Reid’s play-calling is mostly ok. He varies things quite a bit and generally comes up with the right calls in important moments. The major issues their dealing with come from the OL, which I’ll talk about tomorrow, the WRs not being fully up to speed (the WRs coach may share some blame for this as well), and Alex Smith being unable to execute in anything less than ideal circumstances. Reid is calling the right routes, guys are getting open, but Smith isn’t pulling the trigger, a lot of that comes down to trust.

      • tm1946

        Agreed.Seems to me Alex is currently lost, not sure why but he is not right on the field. Whatever is going on with Reid…. it is not working. I do not have an inside view of what is wrong but Reid’s game plan is in every playbook of the worst teams defenses… not sure why?

        • Chiefly Bacon

          That’s the thing though, it’s not Reid’s game plan, it’s the execution. Teams are giving up boundary throws all day long, betting that Smith won’t make them. They’re usually right. Reid dials up plays that include deep reads, but since Smith either doesn’t throw them, or missing badly on the ones he attempts, Reid eventually goes to other plays that Smith can complete, like screens.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            thank you thank you thank you. It’s not ALL Smith, but he IS a very large part of it.

          • tm1946

            Horizontal offenses are Reids thing and more teams are trying the same. Execution is a major factor but this is Reid’s team with Reid’s players….. So we blame each other (one person state here, if I was not so pessimistic there would be better for all involved), Coaching is suspect, OL is suspect, Alex is not playing worth a hoot right now. Things are not right. And we are no longer blaming the defense … how is that for irony.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            Reid is putting vertical options in the game plan though, this is proven by game-tape after game-tape, somewhere the long option is not getting used, only the short stuff.

            Here’s one thing I do know, if I was a WR/TE etc. and I knew I was running a deep route every single time just as a diversion I would be up the HC’s butt every day.

          • tm1946

            If so you would be on the bench before you could get off your helmet. No, you run the routes and tell you agent – get me out of here as soon as possible or they start throwing to me.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            Contracts, you know you can’t do that being union and all.

          • tm1946

            Once a steward, for those who are not aware…. unions are like the Knights Templar…. there are rules public to everyone then there are other considerations.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            yes there are, now think of sending some of your best workers on a fool’s errand every day. How long do you think this would keep up?

    • HOMER!! Dave

      Thing is, there really aren’t that many different plays in the NFL. They are all similar to a fashion, it’s the ability to disguise them that truly separates the offenses in the league.

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    Prisco has picked the Jets to win Sunday, so maybe the curse is lifted.

    • tm1946

      Based on what we have done with other lesser team…. seems reasonable. Problem is I know nothing about the Jets, makes betting impossible.

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        I don’t know a lot about them either. They’re a team in turmoil, not a real QB, a head coach probably on his way out. The “experts” didn’t think they would be any good this year. They are one of those teams we SHOULD beat easily, but who knows.

  • Very nice piece of work Ransom. Reid could simplify his use of his playbook, but that has not happehed. Too, the Chiefs execution has faltered. On the OL we had shifts to new players due to injury. Notably, Witzmann and the guys out(Morse, LD-T and so on hurt a lot). You note Wilson and Conley and the latter was a huge loss for the season. I have been all up on Wilson and due to last year, I was ready to “lose him”. But he has shown value this year as Robinson breaks in(whom I think is doing very well considering his learning curve…. Again, you have shown what most of the fan base does not understand.

    Oh. Does this buttress my view that it’s time to lose Andy Reid? EP — Atlanta runs it, or their own version of it. Andy’s WCO is a “hybrid”. It is much genius, but problematic to say the least.

  • ladner morse

    I’ve always thought Rodney Hudson would make a great lineman from the time I first started breaking down his game before .he came to the NFL. The Main skill I based that on was… his quick feet. He had the ability to move side-to-side… or stay balanced… or recover… all because he had fast feet.

    The opposite is true of Zach Fulton. Although I thought he had the requisite upper body strength to make a good Guard… I believed… and still believe to this day… that unless he improves his footwork, he’d never make it in the NFL. Watching tape of Fulton in the Bills game solidifies my initial beliefs from 2014.

    To emphasize my point, watch this video of Fulton attempting to block Adolphus Washington: Fulton takes 13 steps before he runs into his own RB while Washington takes 16 steps in the same span. Not only is Baldinger right here in his analysis of Fulton, but it’s his lack of speed-of-foot that forces him to take tiny steps consequently covering less ground.

    Now in his 4th season… Fulton is still a reason that… Alex Smith is as skittish as the British are British.

    https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/935585115215888384

    https://twitter.com/bobfescoe/status/935881079508041728

  • jimfromkcj

    Good article Bacon, but what I would like to know is what offence did the Vermiel Chiefs use. As I recall it was the best in the league for several years. What kind of blocking did they use? Then you can make a decision based on the Chiefs. I hope we are not headed down the Patriots west again.

    • HOMER!! Dave

      Air-Coryell offense with a zone-blocking scheme iirc.

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        It helped we had the dream team of offensive lines.

        • HOMER!! Dave

          and it was at that, but we also had verifiable talent in Green, Kennison, Gonzales, Priest etc. They all helped each other look good.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Who was the O-line coach back then? Or even Dick V’s with the Rams?

          • HOMER!! Dave

            lol, I can’t find it. I’m an internet failure.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Ha, I don’t think that at all, I’m sure it’s hidden somewhere, probably in the back of someones underwear drawer.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            lol, I’m not looking there, not even in my OWN drawer.

      • Chiefly Bacon

        Yup. Air Coryell is fine system too. Worked out pretty well for the Chiefs. I still believe the ZBS is the best system that exists, finding the personnel for it is getting harder though.

        • HOMER!! Dave

          yeah, “rock make GOOD hammer” can only take you so far and that is EXACTLY what a power blocking scheme is. I agree about the better of the two system also, but it takes a miracle worker in coaching to make to make it happen. Heck is NOT that guy.

          • jimfromkcj

            Homer, Joe gibbs ran an air Coryell offense and he ran it more like Don did, Don had big back Muncie Gibbs had Rogers and the kid from KU. When Norve Turner was OC for Cowboys he had a great RB and TE and WR for Troy to work with, Norve learned his Air Corell from Zanbese and it was not exact model but one that had some different things added or taken away.

  • HOMER!! Dave

    When you've got them where you want them, can you get off the field?Best 3rd and LONG defenses this season#Jaguars #Skol #HereWeGo #FlyEaglesFly #Chargers #OnePride #GoPackGo #BroncosCountry #DaBears #LARams #Bucs #ChiefsKingdom pic.twitter.com/hDZYxq3pU3— NFL Matchup on ESPN (@NFLMatchup) November 29, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Yessir, Sutton’s D!

  • HOMER!! Dave

    so?

    Safety Eric Murray misses practice on Wednesday.Injury Update ➑️ https://t.co/HGZ7XxtImA pic.twitter.com/USjmVtTzkn— Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) November 29, 2017

    • Chiefly Bacon

      Lol, thought the same thing.

  • HOMER!! Dave

    Gonna be honest here fellas, this being afraid to play Mahomes thing is kinda weird. It’s like potentially having a Ferrari in the garage but you’re wanting to keep the miles off of it for the next owner. But but but “break-in period” you say? good point, and I can’t think of an easier break in period than what KC’s remaining schedule can afford.

    • tm1946

      Always wondered by QB are sacred and exempt from change in football. Teams tend to keep a QB until he wins it all or is a total failure, limping to the shower. Why can’t they play the player with the hot hand in practice and let the other QB hold a clipboard (computer) until he is the hot hand in practice next week?

      • Chiefly Bacon

        Excellent question.

      • HOMER!! Dave

        such limited practice time snaps is my main idea. So little time to make the transition. Thanks CBA.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Now see, that’s my reservation on starting Mahomes now. Lack ion practice time. We all know he has basically gotten nothing but scout team snaps all season, so there is no way he has any chemistry with our primary receivers. But who the hell knows, maybe he doesn’t need any, but according to Ransoms article, Reid’s WCO is based on timing (been 11 hours since I read it, so memory could be failing), I’m just not sure if he would be an improvement at this time.
          Did any of us (well, one or two maybe) really expect Smith to take us anywhere this year. Winning at Foxborough and the next 4 games changed how most of us viewed this season.
          I could be way off base, but I think 2018 brings a lot of changes to our offense, and I think I would rather keep those lights under a barrel and bring all of them out at once.

          • tm1946

            Consider…. if Alex can win just enough to keep a 100 + rating …. he could be the QB next year also… Not sure Reid will dump him for an untested QB.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I kinda responded to this on your comment below, so I won’t waste your time doing it again.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            dammit, quit making sense and blowing holes in my diatribe!!!!

            p.s. just joking, I greatly appreciate your insight.

            p.s.s. bench Smith, START MAHOMES!!! lol.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I’m not that good with a shotgun, but let me tamp a patch and ball on top of some blackpowder and I can shoot holes through any kind of tribe! lol
            I know I’m weak on the mechanics of the game, but there are other parts I feel I have a little bit of a handle on. I at least have an opinion and we all know what those are like!

          • HOMER!! Dave

            lol, it’s fun though man, and that is all that matters

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Absolutely!

      • put some crystal hot sauce on Smith’s arm and let’s get on with it.

    • Chiefly Bacon

      I said it below, but sticking with Smith is “playing not to lose”. I’m a big believer in “always play to win”.

      • HOMER!! Dave

        yup, Smith is the safe play…and we will more than likely get the safe result, a respectable win/loss ratio and not much more.

        • tm1946

          Again on 810am today, Alex will have to play himself out of the QB position… still has a rating of 100, Mahomes rating is 0. We may not like it but Reid will only change when there is nothing left of Alex.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            I absolutely loathe the idea that a team would stick with a middling QB over the potential of a great QB just because the new guy doesn’t have any stats. Every player retires, and they are replaced: I would much rather replace a player with a better player sooner than a worse player later.

            This, being afraid to move forward stuff, is exactly what got Kc in this predicament in the first place. The thinking is ‘being average is better than being bad’ when the philosophy should have always been….

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/419b0a2605a8e660c9bd74962a90b0ca27b89436886ab3a1ccf6baeba3eff7c2.jpg

          • see there you go. Smith is not a middling QB. He is not say in the top 8. But he follows right after. He led all QBs until recently(that is if you are going by stats purely). One stat, if you are going by QBs only, Al Smith is in the top 5 of one basic stat since 2013. W-L record.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            ugh, W/L columns being attributed to QBs is folly man. Also, Smith led early in the season and has fallen to the back 1/4 since then. Stats are awesome, but they must be taken in context.

          • so are all the stats, well, maybe, except Brady and Rodgers. It’s a team game and a team offense and it requires execution and integration of all the moving parts. Coordination, cohesiveness and Consistency.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            agreed, and one bad cog can ruin all of that.

          • See Fulton post below.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            I’m not disagreeing that Fulton is bad, but I AM going to stop way shy of blaming the offensive woes on the o-line. Plenty of QBs in the league do more with way less.

          • me either. But if there is a fault here, it’s Fulton over Witzmann or Ehinger. My view. Fulton is a lot more okay at center and Mitch is back.

          • I mean c’mon man! even national pundits are calling Reid on this. we see it every game.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            Ehinger has never proven himself..too small of a sample size to say if he was actually better than Fulton. Witzman ain’t good either but he might be better than Fulton- iffy in my point of view.

          • he proved out better than Fulton at Guard.

          • so did Witzmann, my view.

          • not only that, but the way to fix it is to hold the LBs. You do that by putting Al under center, mix and match with play action. Put Sherman in as a lead blocker and one less WR. They are, after all, running cover 2. Hell, put sherman in, and use 2 TEs. Orson and Kelce. the Former is a blocker. tell him, take the man outside or pick up the outside blitzer on passing downs. Block inside and down field when we run the ball inside.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            Smith under Center is a mistake. Dude has happy feet right now, the last thing he needs is less time to react.

          • don’t agree because of play-action. We just won’t agree on this. Reid is fubar, his playbook, a hybrid west coast is fubar, his play-calling is big time fubar and there is no synchronicity on offense. That is Reid and no one else.

          • case in point: When they go no huddle, and up tempo, they move the football. They get out of the complicated HWCO, simplify and keep the defense guessing and adjusting to what they see. the opposing DC can’t substitute and the Chiefs have run play-action off of that. In fact, I think Reid should be doing this a lot, interspersed with every series of offensive downs. It works and they have proved it.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            I get this, but you can’t run that system all game. Colleges get away with it because of the expanded rosters and youth. Chip Kelly tried it at the Pro level and it all fell apart. The athletes at the pro level just aren’t built for it.

          • note the comment: Interspersed. You shift up, you shift down. keep them off balance. when offense stalls, you up tempo. Hell, 1 first down in the first half illustrates my point.

  • HOMER!! Dave

    No matter the stance of everyone everywhere, there really is some good coming out of this team that is page 7’d because of the 1st page drama…like blood drives.

    The Chiefs partnered with @CommBloodCtrKC for the 20th annual Chiefs Kingdom Blood Drive this week, and the offensive linemen stopped by to kick things off.https://t.co/tarUZAk4XR— Matt McMullen (@KCChiefs_Matt) November 29, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      That’s what I did today. A totally different place, but I took my Dad to a doctor’s appointment today and they had the blood mobile set up at the hospital, so I let myself become a victim.

      • HOMER!! Dave

        proud of you man, honestly. So many believe that giving blood is someone else’s problem and it’s not. It’s on EACH of us.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Yep, honestly I don’t do it often enough, but when the opportunity is there, I take advantage.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            I haven’t done it but once a year for ever. I need to get on the ball.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Nah, if everyone did it once a year, they’d be dumping the stuff.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            there is a shelf life, right? somewhere between a twinkie and an MRE if I remember right.

          • except for the lesser available, that’s right.

  • HOMER!! Dave

    oh, and drugs are bad for you…

    Louisville Woman Bites Off Finger, SWALLOWS IT During Fight pic.twitter.com/S1c8Hv4aNZ— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) November 29, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Any word on whether or not she is related to Mike Tyson?

      • HOMER!! Dave

        2nd cousin from what I can gather

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Not surprised.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            Ha, you act like people on bath salts ain’t gotta eat. Get outta town!!

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I don’t know much about it personally, but they do say smoking does give one the munchies.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            oh, you poor sheltered soul. J/K, you are better off knowing. Just remember, if you see someone acting like a zombie off of Z-nation while out and about…run.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Thanks Chief, I’ll remember that. Part of living out in the boonies, missing out on the good stuff, I guess.

  • ya know? The author stayed away from this QB topic. Think what you may. He observes that opinions are set. But he gave us a very profound view of the problems the offense basically, faces or failed to execute> Why are you not focused on that? Okay the defense has been better but look who they faced!!!!! These last games should have clearly been in the win column. There are problems and Ransom covered them.

    Myself? Ain’t gonna start a rookie, wet behind the ears spread offense QB no matter what. Whippersnapper I tell ya.

    So Where’s Bert or L&L when I need them? So okay TM, what about you? Let’s look at the article and discuss that & at the end, tell me you really believe Mahomes can handle this offense. Deep belief now. Not inclination.

    • HOMER!! Dave

      lol, hater.

      • I stand accused in multiple venues. Won’t plead guilty. The world changed, but I am pretty much the same since May Day, 1971. No more of that crap.

        I say Merry Christmas and A-men. Otherwise, f–k e’m, feed e’m fishheads…the sorry bastards can all kiss my ass. That type of deal.

  • jimfromkcj

    Here is a little information on the West Coast offense
    In the West Coast (Bill Walsh) offense, you will see the following things:

    Short 3 step drops by the QB. Very few 7 step drops.

    An East-West passing game rather than a North-South passing game.

    The QB often throws the football before his receivers are finished with their breaks.

    The offensive line must provide excellent protection for the QB, but not for long.

    The Quarterback frequently has a specific (low) time limit in which he must throw the football. This is most often a three count. It can be longer.

    There is always an outlet or dump-off receiver that the quarterback can throw to if he is under pressure. This is frequently a running back to his throwing-arm side.

    The terminal point for most routes is within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.

    The favorite routes are quick slants, shallow crosses, dump-offs, half-back screens up the middle, flanker screens,

    Receivers have a route tree which determines the routes they can run based on their position in the formation.

    Receivers and Quarterbacks are expected to read and identify coverages. Receivers can adjust both depth of the pattern and the pattern itself based on the defensive coverage they are facing. The quarterback must read according to the same set of rules and correctly predict where the receiver will go.

    The absolute idea is a ball-control passing attack, which advances slowly through the air. It chews up yards and minutes. You create many one-on-one collisions between running backs and defensive backs. You beat up the secondary with this form of short passing so you can throw deep later if necessary.

    There are a few key phrases that have been used to describe Walsh’s offense. Nick & Dime. Dink & Dunk. Continuation of the run by other means. Pass-first. Conservative pass-first. Low-risk passing attack. Ball-control passing attack. High efficiency passing attack.

    • HOMER!! Dave

      So, this all taken into context and Reid is putting his own spin on the WCO. 36 attempts this year have been greater than 20 yards. VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!

      • so you agree with me. It’s time to rid ourselves of this Mr. Horn, er, Reid.

        • HOMER!! Dave

          gotta reid (swidt?) the entire context there man. Reid is calling plays with targets further than 15-20 yards. He’s expanding the WCO. So in a nutshell, nope, I don’t quite agree with the idea of making jettison of Reid.

          • Reid calls all the plays. There are no plays beyond 20 yards for the most part. what are you talking about?

          • HOMER!! Dave

            Pass Thrown 21-30 Yds=20
            Pass Thrown 31-40 Yds=10
            Pass Thrown 41+ Yds=6

            per ESPN= http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/splits/_/name/kc/kansas-city-chiefs

          • not th point. The plays called are not deep throws beyond 20 yards. That is part of the problem. Think back. last offensive play of the game. Kelce was open but he ran his post deep but deep was about 20 yards. He broke open. Now if there was a failure, Al was progressing to his his #2(i THINK, and threw to him. I se a completion of h turns out, not an int). He wanted the 1st down. Kelce has a likely TD. If there is a failure then it is Al Smith not taking the risk to get th ball to Kelce. In fact, that is the fault of the QB. Kelce was breaking open. Brady would have found him. I can give you that.

            Still, you are talking about Reid’s play calling and the plays called are not targeting beyond 15 yards almost every time. That is all on Rid.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            the plays listed aren’t YAC, they are passes attempted. They are exactly the point. This standard WCO offense thingy is not being strictly adhered to by Reid, he is attempting to expand upon it.

          • 36 passes for how many attempts? C’mon. Even the evidenc you submit doesn’t support what you are saying. Go look at the stats, the number of passing plays. 36 is a huge minority of plays.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            doesn’t matter if it is 36 of 3600. If it was 1-10 I might agree, but it’s not…369 passing attempts this season, 36 of them are longer than 20 yds., that 10.26 percent. That’s a not so insignificant number.

          • 36 is 1 of 10

          • HOMER!! Dave

            369/36= 10.25….my bad.

          • look: I am not saying that Al shouldn’t get hill or Robinson deep and run one cross one fly or post, kelce underneath. I believe that. But it’s Reid calling the plays. he did this at Philly too.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            I’m not even trying to be combative my friend, I’m just not buying this ‘it’s all on Reid’ thingy. I watch clip after clip, after game after game, after gig after gif, of Reid scheming guys into the open and no ball being thrown their way. That points a big finger at the QB to me, especially given that QB’s past.

            That said, I listen and respect your opinion. I just thoroughly disagree on this one.

          • I am not being disrespectful here either. I am verbalizing what I see. I don’t see what you see. I think you are ignoring the sequence of targets in my view. They play called is sequenced. if they do not break open when the timing is set to do, Smith is going to th next option, and then next. He has about 3 seconds. If it’s not there, he knows his OL is not tops. I would rather tll Smith to find th open guy and throw to him and that is not happening. the hybrid WCO is fubar, Reids play selection is Fubar and I am not going anywhere but there. There is no QB change coming. Al Smith is th starter. There will be no Mahomes in 2017. I am done with the QB topic except to say, Pederson has to quality RBs. They are successful. Dallas lost their RB for 6 games. Where are they? Seattle lost their RB, where are they? I just don’t believe that you can win without a running game. KC hasn’t had one for several games and Reid has not adjusted. I gave an example of how to get out of that. It would work. Reid won’t go there. Teams that have a two dimensional offense are winning in other words. Philly is going to be a tough out the rest of the way. The Chiefs have provn they are not. etc.

            Reid came ot of the Bye and lost 2. exactly why do you think you blame the QB for that? Even in one of those games he had 230 yards passing, 67% completion. Al Smith was not the problem.

            Let’s get back on topic and we can bring this up on another thread another day. I am tired of worrying this wart.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            actually, I think too many people are going around thinking that anybody and everyone else is beyond taking into account other’s opinions and yet still be able to disagree with them on this site (and everywhere else for that damn matter).

            What if I HAVE taken into consideration that Reid/Nagy’s play calling is the problem, or Dorsey’s drafting, or Hunt’s ownership…but I still think Smith is the prime culprit? Don’t discount my opinions, or theories and I will answer in kind while giving credence to yours. What I will NOT do is assume that you have not done your homework and are talking out of your butt. (you’re not Bert, after all).

          • πŸ™‚ /// don’t think I am that guy.

            I cannot for any reason, fathom, blaming Al Smith for the offense woes. I am not for any reason dismissing him being part of the problem either. What I believe is occurring isn’t just one facet of the offense. I do however watch the plays called closely. Maybe because I didn’t want Reid in the first place.

            1. I think we are doing a dis-service to Ransom and his topic. This goes far and wide away from his focus.

            2. I was and am a big proponent of John Dorsey. I think he was sacrificed due to internal squabble from Hunt to Reid and Dorsey. Whatever it was, it is not known to us. However, the body of work Dorsey did in player evaluation doesn’t translate to what occurred in the draft. It was ‘out of character’. Reid got the 5 year deal.

            3. Hunt made them separate entities reporting to him and that I view as a mistake. The HC should report to the GM. My view.

            4. You can’t, for example complete 67% of passes for 230 yards, 27 of 40 or whatever it was and be the problem. 2 games ago btw.

            5. Al Smith is off from where he was. The above note though, shows why Al Smith is not the problem. But he is off… Agreed. Mahomes isn’t ready. He may be bright but I cannot believe he is ready to b the play caller for the Reid HWCO.

            6. That’s my view and I won’t discuss this topic further on this thread. Maybe I will do a Sunday piece for this. We can continue there.

          • We have personality conflicts, we have disagreements that lead to other more irrational combat performances. I would appreciate leaving that aside, even for Bert. Let’s talk football and keep off politics and personalities. Please. After all, I do put up with Laddie ya know. Or L&L.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            Here’s the thing. As a coach, you call plays to make your starting QB successful. If you call three deep shots in the first half and Smith doesn’t hit on any of them, you’re not gonna call anymore in the 2nd half. When Reid had McNabb, he called a ton of deep throws, so it’s not that Reid hates the deep ball.

          • there were two plays in the 2nd half specifically where Hill is going deep, for example. Smith was going to throw that ball as his second look, or maybe even the first, but Hill was covered, didn’t get separation. Ditto Kelce in the slot.

            I think calling this an Al Smith problem is purely wrong.

            I am not saying he is on top of his game. I am not saying he is not part of the problem. I am saying that blaming Al Smith for the offense problems is not it. Andy Reid himself talked about that. It’s not any one thing said Reid.

            If the offense is stalled or not executing, you must, in my view, take a hard look at what plays are called, their sequencing, the inability to execute and move the chains. You have to look at what Nagy is doing at the same time and so on. Opposing teams have figured how to use their secondary the OL is not opening holes to run through, creating a situation where the defense knows that a pass is the next likely play. The Chiefs went from dynamic to one dimensional, often on 2nd and 3rd down both.

          • buttressing my comment below, a look at the OL and it’s problems: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/29/16714782/whats-wrong-with-the-chiefs-offensive-line-edition

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      That seems to describe the Patriots offense.

  • jimfromkcj

    The Gilman/Coryell/Martz style of offense is different in a number of ways.
    The first element of Air Coryell is the bomb. You go deep, break off large chunks of yardage, and stab the defense in the heart.
    You throw Noth and South, not East and West.
    It not about ball control. Its about explosive plays gaining more than 25 yards per pop.
    An ideal Air Coryell drive is no more than 3 plays long, and will cover 80 to 90 yards.
    You force the safeties to drop deep and prevent the big pass.
    You use motion and formation to construct mismatches.
    The objective is to put your biggest play makers against the weakest links of the defense.
    In the final analysis the objective is to put the ball in the hands of your biggest play makers, and let them run with the ball.
    The system is extremely player-centric. What you do is going to be predicated on the players you have.
    There are a lot of 5 and 7 step drops.
    What you like to do is highly predicated on the sort of players you have, the sort of mismatches you think you can create. Now here is the Air Coryell offense to compare with the west coast.

    • Which never, btw, won anything in the end.

      • HOMER!! Dave

        uh, the Rams won a SB with it in 1999.

        • no, that was not that offense. but okay. I’ll give you the similarity and on Super Bowl in 60 years.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            the “greatest show on turf” was born in 1999. It was orchestrated by Vermeil and briefly QB’s by Green, who was subsequently injured and replaced by Warner.

          • still. 1 big trophy. 60 years.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            but….my point stands, it was effective, if but for a short while.

          • I will go with an offense that is aggressive and aerially, but not air Coryell. We disagree on this one big time.

          • HOMER!! Dave

            shoot, I’m fine with that. I’d take Air-Coryell over this WCO crap any day of the week, especially with the #2 QB sitting on the sideline that I think would be better at both than Smith ever would at either.

            Agree to disagree.

          • jimfromkcj

            Dai, Joe Gibbs won 3 super bowls with this offence with 3 different QB’s and 3 different RB’s. Also the cowboys used this offense to win 2 Super bowls in a row under Jimmy Johnson and Troy as QB.

          • Wait on that a minute Jim. It was not what Reid is running. Second, he won one superbowl doing the play-action, MO RB deal, not the west coast.

            You have never seen me propose that it takes Tom Brady or Rodgers level of QB to win the big trophy. You may not recall the conversation but I said we could win with Smith and he is not even in the top 8(except w-L record). Now I don’t think Jimmy was running the WCO either. I am sure that their offense was nothing similiar to Reid’s HWCO. Go back historically: Gibbs tried th aerial approach and it didn’t work, started running the ball with Riggins and that took off from there. He never went back to it after that.

  • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

    “It’s not one thing,” Reid said. “Sometimes people see something and it might not be the primary receiver. It might not even be in that part of the progression and read. There’s a lot of things that go into it. The thing that I can do is stand before you and tell you that this isn’t an Alex Smith thing; it’s all of it.”

    • good quote and apropos

    • HOMER!! Dave

      I once volunteered to coach in little league baseball. Small town politics and stuff ruled the day, the teams were pretty much cast in stone and the boys I had on roster would have made the Bad News Bears proud. We played hard, won some, lost most and at the end of the year I spoke to the boys and parents in parting. A lot of my words are very similar to what we are hearing out of Reid right now. The difference is that after MY talk to the boys, some of the parents came up and said “bullshit coach, but thanks for making the boys feel better about the season”.

      • ben there, done that.

        • Elizabeth

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        • Elsa

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  • freshmeat62

    Very sneaky!

    Someone is trying to fool us w/ that picture of the QB and o-line above. If you look at the number on the back of the QB you see a zero, but on the arm is an 11. The Qb is really Trent Green and as you go along the o-line the numbers match the 2005 Chiefs Roaf, Waters, Wiegmann, Shields, Welborn, and Dunn.

    Oh don’t we wish!

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Good catch, and that is probably Tony G to the left of Roaf.

  • Elizabeth

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