Week 17: Is It Rest Or Rust?

 

 

 

Here we are, at the end of Week 16 in the NFL schedule, and have nothing to gain in Week 17. This is a perennial problem for teams in the league. You enter the final game of the season and win, lose, or draw, it doesn’t affect your playoff standing in any way. The Chiefs are locked in at the number 4 seed. Lose next week and they are still the 4 seed, by virtue of being the division winner with the worst record. Win next week and they may tie the Jacksonville Jaguars record, but lose the tie breaker and end up the number 4 seed.

 

So, this creates that question. The one where you ask if the first team players should play or not. The one where you question the risk of injury versus the loss of momentum. The NFL is a tough league with grown men flying all over the field. It is a constant risk that someone gets hurt. Why risk your best players in a game that cannot in any way help or hurt them? On the flip side, what happens to the starters mentally from not playing? Do they lose some rhythm? Do they lose their edge or timing or some intangible? It seems like an obvious choice to me, but let’s take a look at some history to see what we think.

 

2013 – Indianapolis

In 2013, the Chiefs rested the starters in their Week 17 game versus the San Diego Chargers. The backups played a nice game and almost came out with the win. They got some good experience at game speed and almost beat an opposing first team. The first team, obviously had an extra week to rest up, heal injuries, study the opposition, and focus on the playoffs.

In the first round of the playoffs, we lost to the Indianapolis Colts. The team put up 44 points, so you might think the week off helped. However, the team also gave up 45 points. I am not really wanting to get into a debate on who lost this game, I do hope we can agree there was a serious defensive breakdown. It might have been play calling or injury or something else, but the defense did not stop Indy.

So, did the week off help? Perhaps it helped the offense heal and prepare for the Colts. Or, did it hurt? Perhaps the defense lost their edge.

 

2015 – Houston

In 2015, the Chiefs played their starters in Week 17. They were playing for a shot at the AFC West crown, so gave it their best shot, winning that week. Although some other teams didn’t cooperate, the Chiefs entered the post season with a win. They traveled to Houston to take on the Texans.

The team went into Houston and from the opening kickoff owned the Texans. It started with an opening kickoff returned for a touchdown to ending the game 30-0. Although the offense wasn’t particularly explosive, the group racked up the points needed. Add to this the fact the defense pitched a shutout and you must admit the team was ready.

In the second round, KC faced the Patriots. The team played a close one in Foxborough. The result was 20-27, but seemed like it was even closer than that score would say. No real standouts and the offense seemed kind of vanilla, but not a fatigued team.

So, did the week off help? Perhaps it helped the offense/defense heal and prepare for the Texans. Or, did it hurt? Perhaps the team only had 1 more big game?


2016 – Pittsburgh

In 2016, the team played the starters in the final week of the season. There was still some meat on the bone that week. We were playing for the division title, so starters needed to be on the field. In addition to the division title, this was also for a first round Bye. The Chiefs ended up defeating the Chargers, earning the division and the first round Bye.

So, the starters didn’t get their rest in Week 17, but they did get it with the first round Bye. Last year wasn’t a pretty story either, though. We lost to a team that did nothing but kick field goals. The offense was flat. The defense was flat. Special teams weren’t special.

 

Summary of Results

My conclusion is that a week off seems to hurt us. This isn’t strict science, but simply correlation of results to inputs. When the starters play, we win the following week. When the starters don’t play, we lose the following week. What is tough for me is that is counter to what I would think would be the case. One would think the extra week would allow more preparation and healing of nagging wounds. What is looks like is that we lose the edge, slow down, over think the game, or some other reason for losing.

 

I am a proponent of resting the guys whenever possible. I am also a proponent of keeping the momentum. In my opinion, the best plan in this case is like preseason game 1/2. The starters need to go into the game like they are going to play the full 60. They need to prep for the playoff team, in terms of film study and play calling. They need to do the pre game warmups and go through maybe 1 quarter of game play. After that, ride the pine. It is more about the process than the results.

 

I also see value in getting the 2s some game reps. So, let them study the opposition game film. Have them run the reps on field to prepare. And, once the 1s hit the bench, let the 2s get some experience and see what they can do.

 

I hope we let the 1s play some this game. Keep with the program of getting game ready. Then sit them after a series or a quarter. I know we risk injury, butI think the risks are worth the reward in this case.

 

What do you guys think? Do we rest the guys? Or, do we keep the rust off?

 

Until next week, there’s The Rub!

 

 

 

If you are viewing this in Apple News and would like to join the Discussion, [GO HERE.](http://arrowheadone.com/week-17-rest-rust/#disqus_thread)

 

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Frank Leggio
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Frank Leggio

Frank Leggio is an operations director living in the Columbus, OH area.He has two sons and a couple of Beagles.He was born in Germany, went to high school in KS and college in CO.
Frank Leggio
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  • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

    If it was anyone but Denver I wouldn’t be worried about it, but I could totally see Talib and his band of thugs in the Denver secondary trying to end our receivers season.
    Rest em……..treat this like a bye week for the starters.

  • tm1946

    Just me but sort of felt we went AWOL for some games this year (someone else can argue the why or if we did – we lost games where we should not have). We seem back to whatever we call the normal MO of the team (still cannot stop the run and depend on Int/interceptions to stop the pass. So rest the starters and what? Take a chance of reverting to losing/lost our way team we were?

    I say play the starters…. at least a half. If they want time off the field, they better play well or leave them out there.

    PS with our injury history we are not that deep at many positions anyway. As in several of our backups get up each morning praying they do not have to play so they have a chance at one more pay check before the end.

    Mahomes (gets his own paragraph)… I would have no issue if Reid had a presser and said Alex has a hangnail (nothing to REALLY cause fans worry) and Mahomes starts but would not run him in with a bunch of guys who would not, maybe, even be on the roster next year. Will probably lose the game but if you are talking about running out subs, you are talking about tanking it anyway.

    Lastly, snowing again West of Topeka…. weather channel predicted it after we got an inch on the ground…not a happy camper right now… available for arguments

    • Laurels and limitations

      Resting the starters always makes me nervous. I always revert back to my original premise that cobwebs seem to set in during those couple of weeks. I don’t even like bye-weeks during the playoffs. I agree about the team going in to a funk (awol) there for a while this year and I’ll be danged if I want to see them go back there again…that was some BBAAAAAAAAAAD football there were putting out there on the field.

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        Resting them makes me nervous also….but with Talib lined up on the other side, playing them makes me more nervous.
        I’m serious when I say, I don’t trust that guy.

        • Laurels and limitations

          yup, Talib is a loose cannon…if I was Reid I tell th guys to pack extra gold chains….and brass knuckles.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            Lol!

      • tm1946

        The 2017 roster scares. Being in the playoffs is better than I expected but to change the crew in the middle of a rapids… seems less than intelligent. What do I know?

        • berttheclock

          Far more than you realize.

      • I worry about them getting injured, but also worry they lose momentum.

        • Laurels and limitations

          this is me…and the loss of momentum concerns me more than the risk of injury.

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    With a 53 man roster and only able to dress 45 on game day, some of the starters will have to play. But even so, on offense I would rest Smith, Hill, Kelce and Hunt. And then maybe limit any OL that are dinged up.
    On defense I would look at sitting guys that could use the extra time to heal. But would probably sit DJ and Houston either way.

    • tm1946

      Reasonable…. do not care for it but reasonable.

      • Laurels and limitations

        Lol…reasonable is for the birds.

    • Laurels and limitations

      I’d make Smith play while telling him that if at any time going forward this season if he doesn’t put up GOAT stats that Mahomes will be taking over his spot. That’ll get Smith aggressive, lol.

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        That pansie should have thrown for 5000 yards this season!!!

        • Laurels and limitations

          Lmbo, NOW you get it!!!

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Well 4700 anyway. It would be 5000 if Harris and Wilson could catch! lol

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            True dat!!!!

          • Laurels and limitations

            DAT sucks, lol.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            Funny you say that, because I was just thinking about Thomas this last Sunday, do you think AHunt is a better return man then DAT?

          • Laurels and limitations

            I’ve thought Akeem was a better returner since early in the season, like game 2 or 3 or so. Hunt had that one return for like 20-ish yards and it looked better than anything DAT ever put on the field. DAT is just too light, imho.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t be on the roster. It’s not like he’s contributing anything else.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            Well…. that is sort of my point…….AHunt hasn’t impressed me in the KR game any more that DAT…….

          • Chiefly Bacon

            Recency bias. DAT was terrible early this year. NFL isn’t set up for KRs to look good anymore. Hunt is usually getting at least to the 20. I believe his season long averages are pretty good.

          • tm1946

            ?? is he the other WR out there, though it was Robinson?

          • Laurels and limitations

            I’m not even sure how far DAT is down the depth chart, no real idea anymore.

          • tm1946

            If he is a consideration?… he seems to have been lost by Reid… not sure why… should still be a returner of some sort until he gets killed… IMO

          • Laurels and limitations

            he’s just not good, is the problem.

          • tm1946

            But still on the roster… is a draft pick not active while he stands around… Reid sees something… maybe 2018 will make or break his deal with Chiefs.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I see DAT in on offense a little, but he is never targeted that I’ve noticed.

          • Laurels and limitations

            those damned jet-sweeps or bubble screens. But not that Reid has somewhat relinquished play-calling duties who’s to say exactly what DAT’s role is anymore?

  • ladner morse

    Sorry about the delay this morning.

    I’m at Truman Medical in KC and was here overnight. Thought I was having a heart attack yesterday and went to the hospital at 1 PM. However it’s not heart related and I’m having arthroscopic surgery today to clean out my left shoulder joint. Even after the surgery I promise to keep up with the hard hitting. Lord knows our D could use it.

    If we can’t get an article up by Wed morn feel free to continue to post on this piece as well.

    Go Chiefs!

    • Laurels and limitations

      Good luck Laddie, keep up the good fight!

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Don’t worry about us Laddie. Take care of yourself and get well soon.

    • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

      So dang selfish of you, thinking of your health over us readers….lol

      Glad it wasn’t your heart Laddie, take care of yourself.

      • Mary

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    • tm1946

      Got to take care of yourself… no one else is going to. Heck if you are desperate come out to Lake Wabaunsee and… housing area is a 5 mile circle and the golf course is 9 holes… walk and drag your bag… I, of course, will be right beside you riding in my golf cart. Seriously, I am up to 3 miles most days and at least 9 hole barring weather… much healthier, except for left knee and hand… thanks to my RVN service….plan on being here forever or longer.

    • berttheclock

      Geez, first your knee, now, your shoulder. Just remember the words of Satchell Paige who used to say, “Don’t look back, somethin’ might be gainin’ on ya”.

      Get thee well, old friend.

      • understand this completely. I had shoulder surgery left shoulder and then ankle replacement, late fall, 2015. Now the right shoulder needs it. Last Fri I went to Methodist emergency room, totally awful sick, worried about the chest and a toothache, flu and cold all at once. When you are traveling it is miserable to get the aid you need.

        • tm1946

          Turning into a robot? How many original parts are left (should I ask – are still working up to standards?)? You golf game should be much stronger.

          • first the eyesight, then the hearing, then all these moveable parts, I think, but after that, I can’t recall.

          • tm1946

            seems fair….and to think when you get to 25…. it gets worse.

          • ladner morse

            ….. as last by as I can type.

        • ladner morse

          Please take care. Get well soon my friend.

    • Stan Colbert

      Talk about dedication!

    • KCMikeG

      Thoughts and prayers Laddie! Tough time to be in the hospital. Hope you have a swift recovery.

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    Here’s a question, Is the rushing title a consideration? The way I’m seeing it, is there is a 3 man race with Hunt currently in 2nd place, 13 yards behind Gurley and 1 yard ahead of Bell. The Steelers play an early game but the Rams play the same time as the Chiefs, so we’ll know where Bell finishes but not Gurley before game time.

    • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

      I’d say the rushing title would be something that would be important to Hunt, but I think it means diddley squat to Reid………. and since Reid makes the calls……….
      Imagine for a second our playoff chances if Hunt got injured in the Denver game………it’s scary

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        Yeah, I get that and I would probably rest him too. IMO the title may be important to Hunt but probably even more so to the OL.

        • Laurels and limitations

          Feather in the cap and all….but I don’t even believe that Hunt would rather have a rushing title than he would a prolonged post-season.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            He is the one man that could go a long way in providing that

          • Laurels and limitations

            agreed, without 27 in the backfield the KC offense becomes 1-dimensional.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            VERY one dimensional……..speaking of, what happens to Ware when he gets healthy?

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            He’ll make a nice back up and change of pace guy for Hunt. Maybe a good short yardage back.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            I agree, provided he is 100 percent, so then I’m assuming we let West go?

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I haven’t seen much out of West to make it worth keeping him. His best attribute is blocking for Smith, imo.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            I Kinda like West for a change of pace, you got Hunt in there who is a Bull, he drops his head and mows people over like they’re bowling pins…….and then you bring in West……he is like that chicken that rocky balboa was trying to catch in the first Rocky movie.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I see Ware as more the bowling ball. I think Hunt is shiftier than it seems. The way Hunt makes guys miss and if you watch close, he seldom takes direct hits, he seems to shift just enough to avoid the hardest blows. West is ok in the passing game but he just doesn’t seem to gain much rushing.

          • Laurels and limitations

            I’m betting on release, he has a 2M cap hit next season according to spotrac. Plus, Ware is just Hunt-lite.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            West and Ware have identical contracts. I would keep Ware over West. We just don’t get the rushing performance out of West. When West comes in the game, the defense can sit back and say “pass”.

    • berttheclock

      This is an area where players and their respective agents start thinking about perc incentives in contracts.

  • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

    Vegas has us as underdogs next Sunday…..mainly because we will be resting starters im sure…….. how funny would it be if our second string went into Denver and beat their starters?….lol

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      But how big a deal is that, I mean Denver only has 2nd stringers on their offense anyway.

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        Lol……

      • berttheclock

        Some fellow who goes by the moniker of micah would strongly disagree. But, then,,,,,,,,,,

        • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

          I think I mentioned this a while back, I actually ran into Micah on accident on Facebook one day while both posting on a Chiefs article, I finally put a face to the name

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          But isn’t cousin Donald, now a backup to the backups?

          • cousin Donald was only concerned about the “loot” when he was with KC. It earned him a pink slip. He got to mile high and showed that he doesn’t belong as an NFL starter and in my view, he loafs and that is why.

    • Laurels and limitations

      Ah, yes, Vegas/New York….Now where did I put that damn tin-foil hat? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fb3dbac957d6c1a1901b2ab06408bb083d51d5c4b7f6c37c5ae1d366806f3fb9.gif

  • berttheclock

    For the team, whatever. However, for myself, I will take a much needed rest and not even watch the game.

  • Chiefly Bacon

    If it were me, I would rest some key guys. Kelce, Hill, Hunt and Smith on offense. Maybe just Houston and Chris Jones on defense. Keep the core of the offense safe, get the pass rush fresh. Give the rest of the starters less snaps than usual, but keep them active.

    • tm1946

      Another reasonable comment… gosh, how I strongly dislike (see, warmer, gentler comment #2 since Christmas) reasonable people….. OK, if you say so but will be hard to get the final score of 69 – 0 win… won’t it?

      • Chiefly Bacon

        I don’t want to blow Denver out. I’d like to beat them, but we don’t need them any more amped to play us next year than they already will be. What’s more, we’ll just be putting stuff on tape for teams who actually matter to study.

        • tm1946

          Sorry but I want to blow out every team, every game, for only the next 45 years….just me I know, but at my age (and mental state)… seems fair to me. Remember the days of students body right (or left). HC had me on right side LB and over loaded the left side to stop the amount of yardage we were giving up. You guessed it, they came the other direction the second time we shifted to the left… there I stood at 140lb Lb – ALL BY MYSELF – facing a TE, 2 OL, and a RB behind them…. everyone of their legs weighed more than me. Picture – road kill. Point – if you can execute, film will not stop you.

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      I see we’re thinking the same way again! lol

  • berttheclock

    Anyone who says DAT is too light to play in the NFL does not really understand the game. I had wanted Dorsey to draft Jakeem Grant in 2016 out of Texas Tech. DAT is five nine and weighs 176 pounds. Grant is five foot six and weighs 161 pounds. Was he too light against the Chiefs on Sunday? If so, how did he manage to bounce off two defenders trying to tackle him, then, outrace everyone to the end zone.

    BTW, in two year, Marquise “Hollywood” Brown will be coming out of Oklahoma. He is five eleven and only weighs 161 pounds. When, he arrived at OU, he only weighed 139 pounds. He has become a major terror in the Big 12. Don’t ever make the mistake many NFL GMs make and only look at height and weight.

    • Laurels and limitations

      Big difference in being too light and being able to bounce off tackles…DAT is too light AND he can’t absorb tackles….do you understand THAT part off the game?

      • berttheclock

        What you fail to understand and I have, unfortunately, read far too many of your comments, that is, when, you are not just cut and pasting tweets from other sites, is you base many of your opinions on nothing more than your own personal bias. You didn’t like Alex Smith, so, VIVA Mahomes and give away the farm for him. You don’t like Marcus Peters, so cut him. You don’t like DAT, so cut him ASAP. This has been repeated over and over again. You really fail to bring any solid analysis to any discussion. Just stats and tweets form Twitter and your own pre-conceived biases of likes and dislikes.

        • Laurels and limitations

          Yup, they are called opinions. I come up with them on my own, by reading facts. Lets take into consideration DAT. 2017 stats= 15 games played= 14 receptions for 143 yards. That’s like 5th-6th WR production right there. As a return guy? 19 yds, on 7 returns. 305 yards on 13 kick-off returns. That’s 23.5 yds. a return. You do know that if you simply down the ball in the endzone of kickoffs they spot it at the 25 right? Even the offense understands that DAT is not a go to guy.

          I like facts, bert, a lot….the give us a basis on which to prove conjecture. Here’s another fact for you. I have not butted my way into one of your boring-ass conversations in weeks. Nor have I taken any cheap shots disguised as being ambiguous at any of your takes. In other words, I have simply let you do your thing. Quit being a damn troll before I reciprocate in kind.

      • tm1946

        Mentally I picture him get the ball and bang he is gone… only a slight breeze and he is down… probably keeps him alive?

        • Laurels and limitations

          lol, you mean not getting any snaps? yup.

          • tm1946

            Kinder gentler…. work on this… it is difficult and forces you to chew on your tongue… a lot. Also, the mental giggling is somewhat limited.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            But some of the rest of us get to giggle, so all is not lost. lol

          • Laurels and limitations

            I for one, crack myself up.

        • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

          I have noticed that he heads for the sideline as quick as possible any time he gets the ball…….self preservation.

    • Chiefly Bacon

      Too many people look for the fastest guy in the draft. You don’t want that guy. You want the guy who is big for his height and fast for his size. Tyreek Hill was 1″ shorter than DAT, 10 lbs heavier, put up four more bench reps and posted better athletic numbers in pretty much every drill. Albert Wilson is another good example. About an inch taller than DAT, but nearly 30lbs heavier and just as fast.

      • berttheclock

        BTW, have you begun consideration of Mocks? As I posted about a week ago, the new list for the Senior Bowl is out. One comes out every Monday.

        • Chiefly Bacon

          I’ve tried to keep myself from getting too deeply into it. I’ve looked at a few guys, but it’s really too early to tell a whole lot. Some guys, who I love as 4th round picks right now, will wind up being first rounders, some guys people are really high on, right now, will go late in the draft. I remember finding Bud Dupree is several mock drafts in the 5th round. He ended up going in the first.

        • Chiefly Bacon

          I will say, I have my eye on two guys, for the offense. Frank Ragnow, the C out of Arkansaw could be a starter at G or C and give Chiefs some much needed power in the run game. Wisconsin TE Troy Fumagali, could finally give Chiefs a replacement for Anthony Fasano. He’s a solid all around TE and a great run blocker. Love his attitude. Walk on player who worked his way into the best Senior TE in this draft. Some teams might be leary of snagging him, due to him missing a finger on his left hand, but I’d take him in a heartbeat.

          • tm1946

            Would be a great draft with only 4 picks… bet fans would go absolutely nuts with Morse/Kelce on roster. And Reid would not play them anyway for one year.

          • berttheclock

            Hey, in the Chargers’ game, Hunter Henry was out and they had to revert to throwing to Gates. But, on a crucial drive, River hit a wide open McGrath, who used to be with the Chiefs. That set up an easy score.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            Probably only have a chance to pick one of them. Fans should expect a BPA style draft this year. The depth in the draft is not good enough to allow you to pick for need. Chiefs could use an edge rusher and a CB. They’ll be lucky to find a CB, and hard pressed to get an edge rusher.

          • berttheclock

            Ye olde BPA. I still maintain it really comes down for most NFL GMs to be the best available player at a position they really need to fill. Case in point was Dorsey took D J White, CB, who was needed for depth, but, let Jakeem Grant go to the Dolphins and Grant was the better over all player.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            I think Dorsey wanted to draft BPA, but his poor cap management tied his hands. He couldn’t afford to keep Sean Smith and he didn’t have a replacement for him on the roster.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            Reid has shown a willingness to start OL right away. TE, is another matter, but Chiefs also haven’t invested much in the position.

          • berttheclock

            They made a great decision on picking up Orson Charles. Better run block than Travis and he can fool defenses as he did against Kiko Alonso.

          • Chiefly Bacon

            Loved Orson Charles. Hope he would beat Travis out of training camp, but Chiefs held out hope longer than I did (for Travis) I guess. Few games in and Charles already has some key catches.

      • berttheclock

        I have said this many times about Hill. He is a complete football player, who just happens to be very very fast. He and Kareem Hunt are very well muscled in their lower bodies. But, what separates Hill as a player is he has football smarts as well.

        • Chiefly Bacon

          Balance is hugely underrated by most fans, because you can’t always see it in workout numbers. Kareem Hunt’s workout numbers were a snooze fest. His game tape, on the other hand, was incredible.

          • berttheclock

            That brings up an interesting comment I read at the Cleveland Plain Dealer about the difference in scouting between just looking at stats from conferences and looking at game film. Reminded me of Billick saying at a Combine event how he would notice something about a player at the Combine and realize he needed to go back and look at films of him in actual games. The Plain Dealer story was the difference between the way Saschi Brown, the former GM of the Browns tried to draft and the way Dorsey views drafting.

          • berttheclock

            Plus, as noted by someone last week here, Hunt has learned the way Marcus Allen learned and that is to relax his body when he hits the ground.

      • berttheclock

        In the eighties, Steadman?Schaaf took a very fast wide out from Tennessee in the first round. Unfortunately, for the Chiefs, he was only fast. He became so bad at trying to run routes that the Chiefs’ QB would not even look for him, but, look for Carlos Carson, who he knew would be where he was supposed to be. In practice, players used to bet on which direction, the UT wide out would run.

      • tm1946

        side issue – am amazed at the size, speed of today’s athletes. Just a different game – might be some of the reason for injuries…. football may have been passed by the human element.

        • berttheclock

          Someone said last year that play in the NFL is not a contact sport. It is a sport of violence as in collisions at top speed.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            It sure looks that way at times

  • berttheclock

    BTW, Chip Kelly thought DAT was too light and passed on him in the draft for the Eagles and took another returner from Oregon instead. That bigger wide out/returner, Huff, has not had the same success in the NFL as has DAT.

    • Chiefly Bacon

      Which is saying quite a bit, cause DAT hasn’t been great, outside his first year, either.

      • berttheclock

        I believe his concussion made a big difference for him as he began to truly understand the dangers of CTE.

        • Chiefly Bacon

          Could be. He doesn’t look like the same athlete out there.

        • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

          That hit he took knocked some sense into him per say……. The problem is, you can’t be timid on an NFL football field and I have noticed when he gets the ball in his hands he start looking immediately for the sideline to try and avoid as much contact as possible.

          • berttheclock

            Reminds me a scenes from “Path of Glory” when, the French General who has not been within a thousand yards of real battle walks down the line and calls the poor who have been fighting and seeing their friends dying in the trenches and no man’s land, all cowards.

            But, in the NFL, it comes down to really deciding if you should just hang it up.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            So far, I haven’t seen anything that impresses me from AHunt though either and Hill is too valuable now as a WR to stick him out there at WR/PR and KR.

      • for the money per contributed yard? I think Mr. DAT would benefit from another organization which would use him readily in the return game at last. I can’t see it in KC.

        • Chiefly Bacon

          The gave DAT the first crack at KR this year. Didn’t work out. He used to be a great returner. Not sure what happened, but he’s not anymore.

  • Delaware Chief

    First of all Laddie,glad you are doing okay. Secondly,I would tend to want to rest any starters that are questionable injury wise and certain players such as Kelce,Smith,Hunt and Hill on offense. ON defense I would rest Houston,Peters,DJ. can’t rest everyone because someone has to go on the field, but that is how I think Coach Reid will handle it. Also,would you go all Mahomes or split it with Bray? One other question, would anyone kick the tires on the Steelers Harrison or is he done or could he disrupt the locker room. It would be a perfect game to try him out a little bit and with the pass rush lacking this year, he could be a help. Not my favorite player because of some dirty plays in the past, plus he is a Steeler(which is enough reason for me).

    • tm1946

      Harrison issue – he might want one last hurrah against the Steelers before he goes looking at that last contract for money next year…. We could use help on defense… put him out there…. see the ball, tackle the ball carrier.

    • berttheclock

      What makes it really tough for Bray is the fact as a 3rd stringer, all he has done this year is carry a clip board. At least, Mahomes II may have not had the reps with the first string, but, he has run the scout team. 3rd string QBs thrown into important games have failed such as happened to the Raiders when they lost Carr and his backup and had to throw the 3rd stringer into the game. Same thing happened a couple of years back with Arizona. They lost both Palmer and his backup, then, handed the ball to a 3rd stringer who was lost and alone out there.

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        Off-topic, but I was thinking about you this morning…… after watching the Texans game the other day with their running back Blue, I caught myself wondering if he was possibly Vida Blues son, turns out he wasn’t.

        • berttheclock

          Yeah, not too many Blues around, eh?

        • berttheclock

          Hey, thanks for mentioned Vida Blue. I had to google his bio. I did not realize he lives in the Bay and works as a consultant for Giants’ games.

          Plus, I did not realize that in HS in Louisiana, he was good enough as a QB and runner that he had offers to play college football.

          • knowing what I know now? I would take the baseball path. 🙂

          • berttheclock

            BTW, Vida Blue, living in the Bay, now, says his two favorite sports are NASCAR and golfing.

      • thinking ahead to 2018, let’s say Al Smith is traded. Then Mahomes is the starter. Who is your #2? Bray? Really?

        • berttheclock

          With a limited supply in the draft and the Chiefs really needing help in other areas, keeping Bray would make sense.

          I noticed watching Foles in a couple of recent games, as long as he has pass protection, he can do well. However, one big difference between him and Wentz is his lack of mobility if he has to scramble.

          • what I am worried about is what we get if Bray should have to play. When you were talking about Smith/Foles, it was a large chunk of change for the 1-2 combo. With Mahomes less than 4mil, you could afford to bring in an experienced NFL hand. So do you trust Bray enough to be your #2? He has never risen from the #3 or even appeared, at least to me, to be that #2 QB.

          • berttheclock

            Great point. With all of the time spent here, he still has that “Iffy” look.

          • ‘sactly

          • Laurels and limitations

            going to be a lot of holes to fill with limited resources this next offseason. If, QB, QB is one of them I don’t know if KC can find the extra money to bring in even an average-priced veteran. The youth movement may have to start out of necessity just as much as want.

          • we have seen those experienced hands QBs getting to the 10m level. So think about it: When Chase left, he was going for 10M, and Foles as well. A good #2 should get that money. Now Bray? Pr-season didn’t strike me as being a guy you want as #2. Just sayin’. And developing talent? By now, if he doesn’t have it, he should be gone. Yeah, rocket arm but what does that get you?

            So my view is that KC has got to find a #2 QB but then I Haven’t ever believed Bray was going to get there anyway. 2018? His 6th season. Huh. Okay, so he knows the playbook but gets no reps. I just don’t buy it.

            Which is why Daniel and Foles are playing elsewhere. As far as Foles Bert? He can win out of the pocket and true, h doesn’t have th feet of Al Smith, Wentz, Wilson, Dak, abd Cam etc… but as a #2 I can shift up and use that to win. We’ll see then, won’t we?

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            For an early day 3 pick, I would look at Lock out of Mizzou (assuming he declares). extremely raw but a monster arm. If Mahomes doesn’t work out, then we have a back up, if Mahomes does, Lock is tradable.

  • Laurels and limitations

    Something to keep in mind when speaking of resting starters is how much work load they have suffered this season..namely RBs. Depending on who you ask Hunt has 271 carried (ESPN) or 242 (Football Outsiders). Hunt has rcvd 59 passes as well. Then there is this…this a ton of carries for a RB- the kind of totals that shorten most careers. For that reason alone I would rest Hunt this net weekend.

    The Matt Nagy impact on the @Chiefs offense… Kareem Hunt in the last three games, 25,24,and 29 rushing attempts. Highest total, by far, of carries over a 3 game stretch this season for Hunt— Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) December 26, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      And what about our OTs. Have Fisher or Schwartz either one missed an offensive snap this year? But knowing what I do about MS71, he probably doesn’t want to.

      • no. They both have played 100% of snap counts for the offense.

      • Laurels and limitations

        I can’t remember either one missing any ‘significant’ snaps. I seem to remembrer Schwartz missing a few for the first time ever or something. I know the o-line takes a beating, but you either play ALL of them, or none of them as they need to stay synchronized moreso than any position on the field.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Yeah, maybe so. But surely by this time of the season they could miss half a game and not screw things up all that bad. I mean the interior three has been a merry go round of players most of the season.
          We usually only carry 7 OL on game day, so sitting them for the entire game would be out of the question IMO, but giving them as many plays off as possible in the 2nd half might be beneficial.

          • Laurels and limitations

            7 sounds right, so to me that says you rest the guys you have to a bit.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            That’s what I’m thinking. Who ever is dinged up should get a few snaps off.

          • when you think of that it shows the importance of Fulton and a swing tackle. 🙂

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Yes it does. I think Witzmann has improved considerably at LG in the later part of the season. This upcoming game might be a good time to see if Ehinger can still contribute.

          • btw: We carry 8 OL personnel. Yes I think it needs this game for PE to get some snaps and see where he is.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            True, we carry 8 on the 53 but one is usually inactive game day.

    • 68.x % of the offense snap counts, 271 attempts(PFF) 1292 yards. Plus the receiving routes. running a route is no big deal but Hunt is a big contributor as the #3 receiver behind Hill and Kelce. Now, those, including the catches are likely not taking a bunch of hard hits as he does when running the ball… 63 targets, 53 catches, a very admirable #3 receiver with 455 yards, 84.1% catch percentage.

      Hill has 1242 yards, 75/105/74.1% and Kelce 122/82/68
      Smith passing: 505/341/67.5%/4042 yards, 5 INTs, 26 TDs, only targeted 15, 14 Rec, 144 yards. Return yards? 2.

      Conley, had 175 yards before injury, complimented by Robinson 181. Catch %$ for Robinson is only 58.6% and Conley was 68.8%.

      Our #2 WR needs work but I think that is part of targeting — or, we need another WR for #3. Now here is Bert Wilson who bucked my demand to release him and has what I regard as low but decent numbers for a #2 WR. 51 targets, 32 Catches, 62.7% catch%. Now that latter number for a #2 plus yardage I don’t like much. 600 yards is what I expect and a catch rate of high 60s to 70s. Our #2 and #3s are below my Expectation. Even Kelce should be in the 70s, in my view.

      • Laurels and limitations

        upwards of 25 plus carries a game is huge for a RB though is my point. Bodies wear down. See: Larry Johnson, Demarco Murray, Pederson, etc.

        I’d like to see Hunt here for the longterm if he can continue to contribute at a high level but I think a high carry count is counterproductive to that.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Yep, that’s why I’m a proponent of RB by committee (more or less). Hunt is a great feature back, but we need a quality backup. Either that or a QB that’s gonna throw 45-50 times a game.

        • 271 carries, 15 games averages 18.5 approximately.

          • Laurels and limitations

            I like 15-20 carries a game, it allows RBs to get in to, and keep a momentum going. It’s when the carries get into 21-30 carries a game that I dislike. Physical RBs like Hunt seem to take even more abuse of course. Then the ill-fated times always arrive when an OC has no choice but to go run heavy and you see RBs getting called on upwards of 30 times a game. Totals like that are career enders.

          • I agree with that assessment. KiM that we didn’t have Ware all season. Hunt/Ware and then get a bully type that will always get you 2-3 yards. I don’t think West fits that picture anywhere.

    • plus scoring: 26, 30 and 29 over the past 3. In those 3 games, there are at least, 3 TDs that ended being called no TDs that the zebras got wrong in those 3 games.

    • tm1946

      We do not always get the full picture…. is some one gimpy for a game or the DC going to stop the run no matter what. Many factors to get an effective running game…. As for Nagy, lets see what he does next year.

      • Laurels and limitations

        I don’t believe we EVER get the full picture. Injury reports, schemes, internal disciplinary measures, morale, you-name-it.

        Agreed about Nagy though, if he’s still here next season we could possibly see what he can come up with for an entire season.

        • tm1946

          One good/great year in 2018, he will be a HC in 2019…. maybe here????

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I just can’t see Hunt (Clark) moving away from Reid, not as long as we’re winning and playing in January.

          • Laurels and limitations

            like, ever.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Reid will retire at some point in time, let’s hope we all live long enough to see it.

          • Laurels and limitations

            Yeah, I know that I hate the jet-sweep, and bubble screens, and throwing short of the 1st down marker every time, lol..but I was watching a game Saturday night and the whatever team decided to attempt a jet-sweep. It was trash.

            Reid does some good things is my point, we could still have Haley in there, or some total tool like Chuck Pagano.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Yep, Reid can draw up some good plays, as long as he has the right personnel to make them work. I know Reid wanted AS11 when he came to KC, but I also think Smith has underwhelmed, which is why this years draft played out the way it did.
            So I am actually looking forward to the next three years to see what he can put together.

          • Laurels and limitations

            yup, it could probably be argued successfully that had Smith performed his 1st four years here like he has in the 5th the last draft would have played out differently. Then again, maybe it would have occurred just the same.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Yessir, one way or the other. lol

          • you two are simplifying the obvious. Sheesh, we have a couple of genius types around here.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Hey thanks, thank you very much!!

          • Laurels and limitations

            we try, lol.

          • Laurels and limitations

            One thing to remember as well, Nagy came into a good situation in KC when he supposedly took over play-calling. The offensive game-plan has largely been in place for years now, a seasoned o-line, Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Smith (ugh) and the caveat…no one has any tape on Nagy and his schemes.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          That would be a pleasant change, although I’m afraid that Reid will return to calling his own plays to start next year. But then again, if Nagy is still here, maybe not.

          • Laurels and limitations

            Man, you would think that Reid (or ANY HC) would be biting at the bit to hand off some duties like playcalling. HC’s have sooo much more to worry about than that. Sure, the HC’s should be heavily invested in the weekly game-plan, etc…but once the course of action is decided upon the HC should just get the hell out of the way.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            “Should” is the operative word, play calling seems to be Reid’s MO. Same way with whatsisname in Green Bay.

  • Laurels and limitations

    now, for something totally funny!!!

    #Raiders are 1st team in past 16 seasons to start 6 drives in a game at own 40-yard line or better and fail to score a single point on any of them per @sportradarus. Last happened for Min vs Bal in 2001 finale— Josh Dubow (@JoshDubowAP) December 26, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Yeah, I think Carr is more overrated than Smith is underrated.

      • tm1946

        Cannot figure it out… Carr seems to have a decent rep but fails at bad times…. Maybe a QB guru at QB coach or some old hand QB to mentor him. If raiders want to make a move in the AFC West, they need more from him.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Or maybe he’s just as good as he can be. I think the Dallas QB is another one that’s overrated.

          • tm1946

            Kid in Dallas is about as unimpressive a football stud as there is. May cost them in the long run…I expect he will be a lesser QB than even Kizer in Cleveland…. has everything but a winner rep.

      • freshmeat62

        Agree wholeheartedly! He’s a ‘good’ QB, but not in the top 10 in my book. I think the reason he’s rated so high is because his brother is over on ESPN singing his praises all the time.

        • tm1946

          Thanks, I just cannot watch espn any more… that guy Mike Smith (?) – mornings – is a know it all jerk with tones of race with all his comments…the guy with him is just a stooge (not the funny kind).

          • freshmeat62

            I can’t watch ESPN anymore either… mainly because I dropped my Directv service. Biggest problem w/ that is that most bowl games are on ESPN. Oh well, at least I still have that $130 a month in my account instead of theirs.

  • tm1946

    NFL news: Pitts is playing the NFL does not care about them card, will have to depend on themselves….. does anyone in the internet 24/7 “look at me” really believe this stuff any more?

  • Laurels and limitations

    James Harrison visiting the Pats today, source says. Here we go.— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) December 26, 2017

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      I was kinda hoping Veach would bring him here. I’m sure he’s still a better pass rusher than Ford or Hali at this point.

      • Laurels and limitations

        Pretty sure that Ford is like retired or something, poor Hali though, that guy just doesn’t have much left it seems.

        • PaulFromNorthMo

          Yeah, they IR’ed Ford, hopefully just so he’s healthy enough to cut his butt.

          • Laurels and limitations

            what a shame, very truthful, but a shame nonetheless. The team spent a lot on his development.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            It’s too bad he didn’t put the same effort into developing himself.

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            Haha

  • freshmeat62

    Anyone watch Steelers/Texans yesterday? I was impressed w/ Zack Cunningham, Texans ILB. I think I heard them say he hadn’t played much this year, But I thought he looked real good. He was all over the field in on plays. He was high on my ‘want’ list last year. I think he would have been the perfect replacement for DJ. He was taken just 2 spots in front of the Chiefs taking Kpass. I wonder if the Chiefs would have taken him if still there. I would rather have Cunningham. I don’t see Kpass as an edge rusher. If it was me I’d get up around 320 or so and make him a DE.

    • Zach C fits the ILB role. I wrote about drafting him and moving him inside and that is working well for him. I think Kpass at 320 won’t work for him. He is not that type of build.

      However, I disagree that he might could not fit an OLB in the 34.

      Or, should the Chiefs move to the 43? Then I can see him on the edge for that. With Houston, Ragland, (DJ or the next guy), and our front three shifted to 4, sans Logan, we might have something. Our problem now is that Logan is not the body type anchor weight that Poe was. Our 43 could hybrid, using him though, Jones, Logan, Bailey and swap in upright Houston on one side and do the same on the other with Kpass, alternating, or doubling them, dropping an interior. Or fit him to the 43 DE because in the 43 he could go at 290-300 which he might be able to build up to. I just don’t see him able to bulk to 320 and even 300 is a far reach. Like that.

      Keep in mind we are seeing a lot of KP-L and we have Eligwe in the background with Ragland showing he can play at a pretty high level as the 34 MIKE. Don’t know how he fits the WIL. Shift it though and think about the LB corp we have without Hali and Ford and the savings for the CAP from that.

      Of course, this is fly on the wall stuff and their is no feedback from the fly and hence, just me running off at the keyboard.

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        I like KPL but we need more speed at WILL, I also like dirty Dan but he is just too slow. I would like to see improvements at both spots, Berry notwithstanding.
        If we can lock down RCB, whether it be Revis, Mitchell or someone new, get Berry back in top form and get more speed at ILB, Sutton will be able to turn loose the pass rush with more frequency.

        • Laurels and limitations

          a second edge rusher would help. It’s just too easy to gameplan 1 guy out.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            Very true!

        • Laurels and limitations

          I also don’t believe that Sorenson is slow, but I do think that Sutton asks more from him than he is capable of. A Safety playing as an Mike ILB, gimme a break.

          • Sutton is getting another db in and that worked sometimes but mostly, he doesn’t carry the weight that he needs to play linebacker. I don’t discount savvy either and that he has big time. He was a great addition to our secondary and will continue to be that[my view anyway].

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I agree about out of position, but Dan runs like a 4.7, not good for a S.

          • his speed was 4.67 measured, the low was 4.50. He is football savvy, knows where the ball is going to be and it shows with his tackle numbers. He is going to be your single high but run support and a two safety drop or playing in the box. I like him, he adds a lot to the back end of the defense, has length.

            Sorensens mission though is not that of either SS/FS as a starter. It is more a hybrid and he fits that roll nearly completely.

            When you compare speed? This one will get you: Pro Day Low was 4.25 for Ron Parker and the difference is not noticeable comparing Parker as a SS to Eric Berry. For Safeties related to their speed. Berry’s low was 4.30.

            Think about this: we have two at 6’0″ and Sorensen is 6’1″ so we have length at the position. I am not too worried about this threesome at all.

            So let’s add in Murray: Murray also has speed, with a 4.38 low, official at 4.48 and a high of 4.58. He is 5’11” and 2017 is his second year. With Berry out his snap counts are really helping his experience.

            It took Ron Parker about 3 years to grow into what he has achieved with the 5 year deal. And as noted, Eric Berry is special, a leader and communicator. Hard to measure up to.

            Recall that Parker got 5 yr, 25 mil which cemented him as the FS, though his strong suit at Newberry was SS/ No one compares to Eric Berry. his low 40 was 4.30. the measured time was 4.40. Now think about who he is. His savvy and leadership at SS is crucial. 2017 shows why. But when you put the three together — Berry, Parker and Sorensen plus one more, you have a damned good safety crew.

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            I like Sorenson as a player, better than Parker. But that is one are we need to look to improve IMO. Berry won’t play forever and we need better at some point. I’m not saying it’s an immediate need, unlike pass rusher.

          • Laurels and limitations

            straight line speed, yes…but his 3-cone drill was crazy fast. The 3-cone is much more pertinent to DBs than straight line speed ever will be.

          • Laurels and limitations

            true, true…..but he also ran a 6.47 3-cone drill. Straight line speed is nice and all but agility trumps the day as a DB.

        • That’s why I think that the personnel indicate, that if we cannot get that edge rusher for the 34 opposite Houston, the Defense with the players we have would go hybrid 43. Secondly: Low 40 for Ragland was 4.48 or something like that and DJ’s low was 4.42. Now at the MIKE that is good. I don’t have KP-Ls numbers but will look. DJ now? I think he might could do a 4.6. His high was 4.52. (I am talking combine numbers now). Ragland is a hitter and next year, he will build on what he accomplished game by game in 2017. KP-L?

          But the speed is pretty decent for both Ragland and KP-L. Football smarts, setting the defense needs some NFL experience and THAT DJ still excels at. I cannot say where he will be with his feet in 2018. I worry that and that is valid.

          RCB? We need to draft to the position. There are some good corners to be had so it will depend on Veach. I have traded down in Mocks and gotten two guys with length and speed, so drafting late in Round 2, because I trade down one time but get another 3rd or 4th(makes up for no 5th). Trade Alex for???? 1st because he has had a hell of a season and L&L wants to start PM and I think that must be the plan(not because said so though… 🙂 ).

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      I watched a little after I got home. It was a blowout by then, but I saw Hopkins TD catch.
      IIRC, Cunningham was about the top rated ILB in last years draft.

  • PaulFromNorthMo

    Well, it looks like Denver will be starting Lynch Sunday! According to Patra at NFL.com.

    • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

      I would if I was them…..that way, when we beat them Sunday, they can’t say our second string beat their first string.

      • Chiefly Bacon

        On the flip side, if Mahomes starts, and looks way better than Lynch, it makes Elway look like even more of clown.

        • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

          Ohhhhhh….. I like that version!!!

        • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

          You know…. you are on the something here……Denver moved up to steal Lynch from Dorsey, and then Dorsey went on to get Mahomes the next year, this looks like a possible pissing contest between two GM’s

          • PaulFromNorthMo

            And now Dorsey is in Cleveland and can screw Elway all over again!

    • Laurels and limitations

      VIVA LA LYNCH!!!

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        Ok….now you are just being an Ahole…lol. 😀

        • Laurels and limitations

          damnit, ur on to me!

        • Jeff Morton

          Ahole.That’s Hawaiian, right?

          • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

            Very good! Yes…Hawaiian Ahole

            Although there are the Aholes of the Indo-pacific region and those around Australia.

    • ladner morse

      Looks like Elway wants to give Lynch one last chance … but if he screws the pooch, I can see Elway drafting another QB high in the draft… or… signing Cousins or Eli.

      • PaulFromNorthMo

        Getting Cousins would be a nice coup, but that would take some major dollars. I don’t know if Eli would go to Denver or not, since Peyton won a SB there, that’s some big family shoes to fill.

  • Laurels and limitations

    Patriots decide to sign James Harrison after visit https://t.co/5YvJMFlJ09— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) December 26, 2017

    • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

      Oh goody….just what we needed

      • Laurels and limitations

        I bet Fisher is at home right now, saying “damnit, damnit, damnit”

        Of course, Kc has to get there first.

        • Jeff Morton

          That’s what I was thinking when I saw the news over on ESPN. So, he can draw another phantom penalty on us.

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      BOO!!

      • Laurels and limitations

        grumpy

    • Chiefly Bacon

      I can’t for the life of me, figure out why Chiefs let him pass through waivers.

      • ladner morse

        I’m with you for the most part. The question then becomes, who do the Chiefs cut? And do you bring him in as a DL-man because his cover ability has to be limited at this point.

        • Chiefly Bacon

          You cut Keith Reaser. Bring him in on obvious running downs and 3rd and long.

      • Laurels and limitations

        if only the PATs would hire Fisher from KC, right?

  • ladner morse

    Update: the operation was a success and they cleared the infection from my shoulder. I know, I know — TMI – but now I can move my left arm without pain and knowing that I wasn’t having a heart attack is rather…well… re-newing.

    Now, back to the Chiefs. Viva Le Mahomes.

    • Laurels and limitations

      sooooo happy that everything is good. Congratulations and I hope the recovery is gentle.

    • that’s great. Pain on a constant basis is a “bother”. Infection dangerous.

    • PaulFromNorthMo

      Glad to hear everything went well. Here’s to a speedy recovery!

    • Calchiefsfan

      That’s good news Laddie! I will pray for a speedy recovery my friend.

  • Ron Widman

    Remember the 6 million dollar man? What are you up to now $6.50? Glad it was not your heart.

  • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

    Jamaal Charles asking for his release

    • Laurels and limitations

      I actually feel bad for JC, but he brought this on himself.

      • Jeff Morton

        I don’t know about bringing it on himself unless it was by not retiring. I don’t blame the guy for wanting to try to keep playing. Now, the “always wanted to be a Bronco” comment is a different story, but I wish him well.

        • ladner morse

          Yep, saying “bringing it on himself” sounds a bit much to me because JC did 90% of his rehab with the Chiefs (not to mention giving them his heart and soul) then JD pulled the rug out from underneath his feet.

          If the Chiefs see this team as a serious SB contender THIS year then they at least have to consider bringing JC back. After all, he saves.

        • Laurels and limitations

          Players trying to get that last year in, etc. I understand why they do it, I would probably do it myself, but it rarely works out.

      • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

        Yeah I agree….he never should have allowed himself to get injured…hehe

        • Laurels and limitations

          ooooh you!!!

  • Jeff Morton

    You rest the starters. Any reason to start Bray over Mahommes?

    • Chiefs-Kings-A’s

      That is an entirely different argument there.
      You could make an argument that there is no need to risk injury to Mahomes entering the playoffs in case Smith is injured………..but on the other hand, if Smith were to get injured, you wouldn’t want a rusty Mahomes in the playoffs.

      I’m so confused.

    • ladner morse

      Sure, there are reasons (1. To get him experience, (2. To prep his increase his possible value and prep Jim as trade-bait to some teams like Philly or Indy, 3. To prepare him for life as Mahomes back-up) but, at most you give him one quarter because seeing what you’ve got in Mahomes outweighs all that.

      • ladner morse

        If anything… you consider starting all Your offensive starters for the first half AND starting Mahomes with them.

      • Jeff Morton

        I agree, especially with the notion of Mahommes backup. Also, I don’t like the idea of PMII being out there with a back up OL against Miller.

  • Jeff Morton

    Vegas is assuming starters sit and has Den as a .5 pt favorite over the KC backups on a neutral field (3.5 fav in Den). That makes me smile.

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